D&D 4E 4e Madness for the holidays!

[Jacob Lewis]

And I’m reading Dungeon magazine and using 2e stuff from it, even though I didn’t play much 2e - easy enough to convert and it’s the stories that matter.

Dungeon magazine was my favorite things in every edition until they let it slip into oblivion. For less than the price of a published module or book, I would look forward to a handful of quality adventures written and designed for a variety of campaign settings, styles, and themes. Even if I didn't use a single adventure in its entirety, I could mine the pages for maps, stats, npcs, treasures, encounters, traps, plots, ideas, etc. I still have stacks of issues going back to the beginning. This, in my opinion, is something that 5e is missing; the DMs Guild doesn't even cover it.

From 4e, I only played Shadowed Keep and Thunderspire … Thunderspire is an interesting setting I might use someday.

Of the three in that H-series, Thunderspire is usually regarded as the best. The plots and premises of the series were thin, but that one had some interesting locations I could pull wholesale and drop into the middle of whatever campaign I was running at the time. At one time, I actually drew the orc temple (the Chamber of Eyes) by hand on giant 1" graph paper for a one-shot.

 

[Retreater]

Of the three in that H-series, Thunderspire is usually regarded as the best.

It's a shame, then, that we gave up on that series after two different run-throughs of Keep on the Shadowfell. We played other adventures, but not in the H1-E3 series, because they had such a bad reputation (and H1 didn't work for us). Most of our experience was with D&D Encounters.
It's too bad the system is so dead now - I couldn't run it on VTT if I tried, and there's not enough in-person players locally to do more than a rare 5e one shot.

 

[Jacob Lewis]

It's a shame, then, that we gave up on that series after two different run-throughs of Keep on the Shadowfell. We played other adventures, but not in the H1-E3 series, because they had such a bad reputation (and H1 didn't work for us). Most of our experience was with D&D Encounters.

Surprisingly, it was D&D Encounters that got me running games in a store. Before that, I was on running a 4e campaign exclusively on a message board (PbP). It was an adaptation of Red Hand of Doom (not Scales of War) with two groups of six players, starting at level 1 and taking different paths simultaneously. Took two years getting to level 3, but still one of my favorite experiences. I wish we were able to keep it going.

I loved the idea of Encounters, having to prep for only one encounter at a time. Great for people with full-time schedules who worked on the weekends. But it got tiresome going only up 3 levels, then starting the next series with level 1 characters again just to showcase the new options in the next splat book. It wasn't long before I started running my own encounters or adventures for the players who wanted to stick with me. I even ran the sequel to Evard they printed in Dungeon after that season ended so they could continue with the same characters. My Encounters group just became my regular group. Good times.

It's too bad the system is so dead now - I couldn't run it on VTT if I tried, and there's not enough in-person players locally to do more than a rare 5e one shot.

That's one way to look at it. I mean, you could run it on VTTs by just keeping track of the basic information, like hit points and healing surges. Focus on the key visuals, like maps and tokens. They don't need to be module or system specific, either. Sure, it would be nice to have a fully automated system that does everything the game expects us to do by hand. But I think we all know that's not likely to happen for 4th edition. The company locked it down before it ever had a reasonable chance to flourish.

 

[Retreater]

My Encounters group just became my regular group. Good times.

Me too (until the pandemic ended it). Even after all this flies over, it's doubtful we'll return to it. They have all made other interests over the past 2 years.

That's one way to look at it. I mean, you could run it on VTTs by just keeping track of the basic information, like hit points and healing surges. Focus on the key visuals, like maps and tokens. They don't need to be module or system specific, either. Sure, it would be nice to have a fully automated system that does everything the game expects us to do by hand. But I think we all know that's not likely to happen for 4th edition. The company locked it down before it ever had a reasonable chance to flourish.

There's too many resources, too many splats, too many options. I don't think it's playable for me without online tools and automation. Even back when we played Encounters, every character sheet was made online.
Then trying to share 12+ books with a table of players across the country (world?); trying to plan complex strategies among players using only voice chat; flipping through a stack of books for stats while navigating Discord, VTT UI, multiple monitors to track maps/initiative trackers/etc.
It's just not for me.

 

[BigZebra]

I currently play 4e on Roll20. Obviously it means entering all the monsters and powers manually but it works remarkably well I think. I set up all the monsters with token action so I don't have to open up a sheet. Also using some condition markers it is easy enough to see if someone is marked (and by who), bloodied etc.
The huge drawback of course, is that it takes some prep time entering all the info.

If one is willing to use Fantasy Grounds, it is possible to get almost all the books as FG modules you simply import into your campaign. And then you are rolling with drag and drop for ALL items, monsters, powers etc. Further with FG's automatic tracking 4e really shines. There's no modules for any adventures (except Keep on the Shadowfell), so you still have to set that up yourself, but at least all the monsters are drag-and-drop. Further if you make your own adventures that's not a drawback for you. Unfortunately we are no able to use FG in my group.

 

[BigZebra]

A screenshot of FG running with the Keep on Shadowfell module, and the 4e Monsters module loaded with all monster from all of the 4e materials. Probably the best full 4e experience currently available.

 

[Jacob Lewis]

There's too many resources, too many splats, too many options. I don't think it's playable for me without online tools and automation. Even back when we played Encounters, every character sheet was made online.
Then trying to share 12+ books with a table of players across the country (world?); trying to plan complex strategies among players using only voice chat; flipping through a stack of books for stats while navigating Discord, VTT UI, multiple monitors to track maps/initiative trackers/etc.
It's just not for me.

I hear ya. I'd like to have one program that does everything I want, and not have to rely on various apps, plugins, etc. I'm trying to run a game, not a production studio. DMing is tasking enough. I want digital to make my life easier, not more complicated. This is why I started creating my own workbooks with OneNote. I want to gather all the information that I use in one place that includes the errata, the updates, and my own notes. Simple solutions are often the best way to address complicated issues.

 

[Jacob Lewis]

I currently play 4e on Roll20. Obviously it means entering all the monsters and powers manually but it works remarkably well I think. I set up all the monsters with token action so I don't have to open up a sheet. Also using some condition markers it is easy enough to see if someone is marked (and by who), bloodied etc. The huge drawback of course, is that it takes some prep time entering all the info.

That might be the biggest hurdle for anyone. Not everyone has time to do the work to put in everything by hand, even if its just the parts you need for your next session. Even the Foundry VTT can't give us a fully-functional setup; the current project can only give us the bare bones and leave it to everyone to fill it out themselves. And unless there's a way to transfer that info, it's only good for that one game or module. (There's tricks to get around it, but that just means more time and effort figuring out how to do stuff.)

If one is willing to use Fantasy Grounds, it is possible to get almost all the books as FG modules you simply import into your campaign. And then you are rolling with drag and drop for ALL items, monsters, powers etc. Further with FG's automatic tracking 4e really shines. There's no modules for any adventures (except Keep on the Shadowfell), so you still have to set that up yourself, but at least all the monsters are drag-and-drop. Further if you make your own adventures that's not a drawback for you. Unfortunately we are no able to use FG in my group.

This is what Matt Colville is using for his current Dusk campaign, which he is showing on youtube. FG is probably the closest we'll ever get to a functional 4e VTT, but you still need to do some manual entry. And spend money for the license. And convince your friends to use it.

Like I said. I think we get hung up on having it all and not doing anything more than we need to. You can take a basic system-neutral setup, create tokens with hp and anything else you need to keep track of, and take care of everything else like you would if you were playing at the table without any other programs. A virtual map that keeps tabs of hit points, resources, and condition markers is still a step up from doing things with paper.

 

[haakon1]

Dungeon magazine was my favorite things in every edition until they let it slip into oblivion. For less than the price of a published module or book, I would look forward to a handful of quality adventures written and designed for a variety of campaign settings, styles, and themes. Even if I didn't use a single adventure in its entirety, I could mine the pages for maps, stats, npcs, treasures, encounters, traps, plots, ideas, etc. I still have stacks of issues going back to the beginning.

I agree. I’m collecting all I can get.

 

[First Age]

That might be the biggest hurdle for anyone. Not everyone has time to do the work to put in everything by hand, even if its just the parts you need for your next session. Even the Foundry VTT can't give us a fully-functional setup; the current project can only give us the bare bones and leave it to everyone to fill it out themselves. And unless there's a way to transfer that info, it's only good for that one game or module. (There's tricks to get around it, but that just means more time and effort figuring out how to do stuff.)

This is what Matt Colville is using for his current Dusk campaign, which he is showing on youtube. FG is probably the closest we'll ever get to a functional 4e VTT, but you still need to do some manual entry. And spend money for the license. And convince your friends to use it.

Like I said. I think we get hung up on having it all and not doing anything more than we need to. You can take a basic system-neutral setup, create tokens with hp and anything else you need to keep track of, and take care of everything else like you would if you were playing at the table without any other programs. A virtual map that keeps tabs of hit points, resources, and condition markers is still a step up from doing things with paper.

I run 4e on Role VTT and we use it for its strengths (Audio Visuals), some light integration, and for images and battlemaps and tokens. I use Masterplan generated HTML printouts for monster stats and a dice roller sheet in Role to share the numbers. It works well enough and brings us altogether in one place.

Love all your exquisite prep!

I run through my process on this video: