D&D 4E 4e Monster Manual excerpt

[Imban]

If a succubus is ever in a situation where it has people hitting it with sharp sticks, it has failed.

So it fails the instant we roll initiative?

I mean, I can buy that, it's kind of how succubi should operate, but this is D&D, man. It's gonna need sharp-sticks protection if it actually shows up in game, and need it fast.

 

[small pumpkin man]

The Succubus's Charm actually seems really weird to me. It seems better to use it on an NPC ally, who will stand next to you and tank for you. Against PCs, it just makes them move away from you if both attacks hit, dropping it to "situationally useful at best" territory.

Dominating someone, then forcing him to move up to you, then you kissing him is such a weird series of events. It's totally in-theme for a succubus, but I don't think it's tactically sounds.

Or you could use it on the PC tank to get them to use their action to move away from the creatures they're shielding the squishies from or you can use the dominate power to get them to move back, or just use it on melee creatures so they don't want to be in melee with you. It actually has some really nice tactical options, it's just not an obvious straight up defuff.

 

[hong]

So it fails the instant we roll initiative?

I mean, I can buy that, it's kind of how succubi should operate, but this is D&D, man. It's gonna need sharp-sticks protection if it actually shows up in game, and need it fast.

That's why it's 9th level and will easily kill any 1st level sap it meets.

 

[AllisterH]

In previous editions a CR 8 monster was intended to challenge a party of 8th level characters all by itself. In 4th it's only intended to challenge a party of 8th level characters in equal numbers. This would be the equivelent of a CR 4 monster in 3rd.

.

That's not actually true about 3.x. A CR 8 monster is only intended to use 20% of the resources of a 4 person level 8 party. It isn't supposed to be a "challenge" but to use a MMORPG term, its a trash mob that drains a litte from the party before it faces the BBEG.

From what I've seen and from what others have reported, the level system in 4E is more designed along a time basis, a.k.a how long will it take to defeat said monster. Thus, a level Z PC should be able to deal with a level Z monster in X rounds while the monster should be able to kill a PC in X rounds + A (based on 1st level mock battles, X is 3-4, while A is 1-2). Assuming you don't use your ace in the hole daily, this holds true (Dailies result in a lowering of X)

 

[pawsplay]

No, no. She Dominates them once, to bring them into range/submit to her kiss. Then she only needs to kiss them once a day (which they would likely willingly do once charmed) to keep them.

Nothing I see suggests that charmed victims are predisposed to do anything but tank for the succubus.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

The succubus has only 90 HP. Great defenses, but I think it might be easier to kill than the level 4 black dragon from the DDXP scenario.

She should be easier. She's 400 XP... the Black Dragon was 875 XP. By 4E encounter building that makes the dragon more than twice as tough.

Fitz

 

[Loincloth of Armour]

War demon tactics:

standard: uses trident against opponent, sliding them into the square adjacent.

move: devilish transposition, moves another devil into the place it just occupied, while the War Devil is moved to a 'safe' location.

minor: Fiendish tactics. Devil that was moved into position takes a melee attack against prone character.

Then (if it works in the initiative order), the Devil moved into position gets its own standard/move/minors to use against the prone and --now-- seriously hurting character.

Vicious and evil. I like.

 

[AllisterH]

War demon tactics:

standard: uses trident against opponent, sliding them into the square adjacent.

move: devilish transposition, moves another devil into the place it just occupied, while the War Devil is moved to a 'safe' location.

minor: Fiendish tactics. Devil that was moved into position takes a melee attack against prone character.

Then (if it works in the initiative order), the Devil moved into position gets its own standard/move/minors to use against the prone and --now-- seriously hurting character.

Vicious and evil. I like.

It gets better.

Remember the Pit Fiend's ability to blow up an ally?

Heh, do the same sequence as above and finish it with the Pit Fiend blowing up the fiend. Now there's teamwork for you. So we can see where devils work better with a specific plan of attack.

Personally, I would never do this to a player often (maybe once an encounter). Smacks of one of those unbreakable combos in M:TG where you basically sit there and take it while the other player goes through the motion.

 

[Imban]

Or you could use it on the PC tank to get them to use their action to move away from the creatures they're shielding the squishies from

Now this time I'll have to agree with hong. If they're shielding the squishies and somehow also in melee with the succubus, something is seriously wrong. Maybe it'll turn out to be more useful if I ever actually run a succubus, but I'm not seeing it as a significant option right now.

 

[Kunimatyu]

Against PCs, it just makes them move away from you if both attacks hit, dropping it to "situationally useful at best" territory.

They still can't attack the succubus for the rest of the encounter, though, and there's nothing saying the succubus can't follow the PC. Depending on the definition of "attack", the succubus may even been able to pull the PC closer with a dominate.