D&D 4E 4e Monster Manual excerpt

[Imban]

They still can't attack the succubus for the rest of the encounter, though, and there's nothing saying the succubus can't follow the PC. Depending on the definition of "attack", the succubus may even been able to pull the PC closer with a dominate.

Yeah, but they can attack any other monster on the field, so unless the succubus is the only opponent, that's just going to result in the PC moving away to attack other things and the succubus wasting everybody's time. At worst, in most encounters, it means people delay their actions so the one guy can move away. It'd only be really useful if the PC can also be kept from moving.

If the succubus is the only opponent, then she'd be best off kissing one PC, trying to keep moving to constantly hug him, and keep Dominating another PC into attacking the party. Otherwise, I still say she should kiss an allied brute/soldier/whatever and use it as a tank while she Dominates the party.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

I could imagination it being useful though, if say your trying to capture a Succubi, she gives a quick peck on the cheek and this distraction enables her a chance to escape. I think this ability would be best served as less a offencive thing and much more a distraction/defencive attack.

I too like the Pit Fiend, I actually got a mental image of the War Devil battering on the shield of a fighter, then teleporting in a ally who explodes; showering the fighter in gore and having him stumble back.

Followed quickly by the War Devil continuing the attack on this dazed fighter who is slipping in the gore and blood (I am so making a 2 square radius around where the ally exploded a -2 to movement).

 

[AZRogue]

I have a question, after considering the succubus entry:

The succubus Dominates a PC and forces them to move adjacent to her. She then Kisses them, Charming them to the point that the PC will actually place himself between her and any incoming blows from his own party. BUT, can he just leave the next round?

What level of control is he affected by? He's not Dominated, obviously, but if she's next to him he will put himself in harms way to protect her. Is he also under further control? Is placing himself in harms way the extent of his devotion?

I would like at least another sentence or two detailing how much control the succubus has over a PC she's Kissed. Is he, essentially, Dominated still, with the added benefit of placing himself between her and incoming attacks? That would make sense, but it's NOT spelled out that way in the entry.

Anyone from WotC? Clarification would be nice because the entry itself seems too vague.

 

[Incenjucar]

Betcha there's a ritual for long-term domination effects.

Marriage?

--

The Kiss just makes it so that a character just can't see fit to see the succubus harmed, like an instinct to protect a child or a loved one from an angry animal or a falling object. I wouldn't assume it goes any further than that.

 

[AZRogue]

I want to add that I love both entries. I just have a question regarding the level of effect of the Succubus's Kiss. It would make sense to me to have it CONTINUE the Dominate effect that brings the PC in for the initial Kiss, but this isn't mentioned. From the wording given, a PC could be Kissed, interpose himself between the succubus and attacks until his turn, and then get the Hell out of there, stay away from her, and not have the effect hamper him any more. Which isn't half as fun.

So, two very nice entries, with a lot of potential, but the Kiss ability could use a clarification in my opinion.

 

[WalterKovacs]

It's interesting that the Succubus is a controller.

Either it means something different with monsters than it does with PCs or there's a tradeoff between hitting lots of people with damage and hitting individuals with long term effects.

Well, part of being a controller is dealing with large groups. Moving characters around, cutting off movement [walls, or slow effects], area effects, etc all count.

I would guess that taking one member of a group and turning it against the others, effectively giving a 2 person "swing" in your teams favor, not to mention causing some confusion, is a useful power.

In that way, the Succubus does fit as a controller in a way, as a charmed character should probably "deal with" one other person in the party, you are effectively taking out two people with one spell.

 

[Surgoshan]

I don't see anything in the Charming Kiss that requires the charmed PC stay next to the succubus nor keep him from aiding his allies or attacking her allies.

 

[FadedC]

That's not actually true about 3.x. A CR 8 monster is only intended to use 20% of the resources of a 4 person level 8 party. It isn't supposed to be a "challenge" but to use a MMORPG term, its a trash mob that drains a litte from the party before it faces the BBEG.

Well a creature that depletes the party of 20% of their resources is at least somewhat of a challenge. An equal CR foe was tended to be an apropriate encounter for a party of it's level, unlikely to kill them but tough enough to wear them down a bit. That's pretty much what an equal level encounter in 4e seems to be as well.

The point is that if you have a CR 8 encounter involving 4 creatures, then the individual creatures are only CR 4, and potentially well within the range of being defeated by a 1st level party in a difficult fight. That's actually extremely consistent with a 1st level 4e party being able to potentially defeat a single opponent in an 8th level encounter.

 

[AZRogue]

I don't see anything in the Charming Kiss that requires the charmed PC stay next to the succubus nor keep him from aiding his allies or attacking her allies.

I don't either. I wish there was, as I could see that causing a lot of havoc. The way it's worded, though, the succubus would have to follow the PC around the floor to have him help her by throwing himself in front of incoming attacks, which probably wouldn't be very smart depending on where he goes.

I guess I'm just looking for some way for her to maintain a Dominate effect, though I really don't think there is one. Hell, I'd be happy if it added the line: "The succubus gains a +15 bonus to Bluff and Diplomacy checks vs. characters effected by her Kiss." That would give me a few more options, too.

It's all good, though. I like it as is and I can always make a higher level, or Elite, succubus that DOES maintain her Dominate with a Kiss. Because it's exception based design and I want to.

 

[TwinBahamut]

While the discussion of the devils is somewhat interesting, there is just one thing in this article that actually interests me: absolute confirmation that the Astral Sea is filled with "astral vessels" sailing around between the various dominions. This looks like it is going to be a lot of fun...