D&D 4E 4E PHB II & DMG II 1 year after release (and a new one every year after that)

[Mercule]

Probably not a bad idea. I think we're running in circles at this point. I'd much rather be talking about what sort of stuff I'd like to see on the DnDI than whether WotC can be trusted to abide by what they've already told us about it.

Which is unfortunate. I'd really like to be able to get info on 4E, discuss some things we've heard and maybe figure what something means, post questions somewhere a WotC employee might be willing to browse and possibly answer, and give a bit of input on what I'd like to see somewhere that it might get aggregated by WotC.

 

[Aristotle]

Dwarves have some excuse to use tech. Gnomes + tech = WTF?

The idea was just to get gnomes into a product, and to give them some "definition" for those folks who feel they have lost their purpose as anything other than 'Dwarf Lite'. Technology as a source has definately got some merit given the various technologies (magically inspired or not) in various settings.

Technology sourced classes would not be exclusive to gnomes. They would be available to everyone, unless you the GM take the active stance that a given power source doesn't exist in your campaign. That wouldn't invalidate the entire book either, since their would be 2 (if they stick to 3 per PHB) other power sources presented as well as races and other content not directly tied to power sources.

 

[Mercule]

The idea was just to get gnomes into a product, and to give them some "definition" for those folks who feel they have lost their purpose as anything other than 'Dwarf Lite'. Technology as a source has definately got some merit given the various technologies (magically inspired or not) in various settings.

I don't really mind gnomes. I don't mind tech, either -- though my homebrew is very Medieval. I also probably came off more starky than I meant to.

I've gotten soured on techie gnomes the same way I've gotten soured on halfling/kender "borrowers" and lesbian dominatrix drow assassins.

 

[Mokona]

I find it shady, and this is again IMHO, not because it's dishonest but because it seems like a money grab.

How is it not good business, I mean you had to do layout, editing, etc. for the physical book already...

A few simple rules apply to free stuff, especially on the internet.

1. People value something that's free much less than something they pay for.

2. Downloads cost very little on a piece by piece basis. But huge volumes can still add up to a large bill. Free downloads are an opening asking for a Denial of Service type attack or being overwhelmed like the 4th edition site when it went live. See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slashdotted.

3. Preparing the printed product is most, but not all, of the work needed to make a quality electronic version. Printers don't use the same files which are given to the public (they have much larger file sizes for one thing) and the hardcover designs aren't integrated into the same layout.

4. There is added, technical, customer support needed for downloads that is handled by retailers for printed materials. Not to mention added complaints if the thing is down for an upgrade, etc.

5. This won't be popular, but businesses want to establish a relationship with their customers. Confirming that a real person is behind a transaction (by collecting a token amount of money over the internet) is a great boon to one-on-one marketing. I doubt this is more than a minor concern but it can help a company help their customers better.

I'm sure I've forgotten something so others can add to this list.

 

[Imaro]

A few simple rules apply to free stuff, especially on the internet.

1. People value something that's free much less than something they pay for.

So you're making me value my book more by making me pay for a copy of it? You only get the download if you bought a book and enter the code. I'm going to assume that anyone who spends the money on the book and takes the time to go online and enter the code values it. Otherwise why waste the effort.

2. Downloads cost very little on a piece by piece basis. But huge volumes can still add up to a large bill. Free downloads are an opening asking for a Denial of Service type attack or being overwhelmed like the 4th edition site when it went live. See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slashdotted.

I don't think everyone will purchase their book and go online with the code at the exact time...but I could be wrong. 4th edition was a singular case because they posted a counter that specifically caused a boatload of users to hit the site at the same time. Anyway how does making a customer pay a dollar stop this?

3. Preparing the printed product is most, but not all, of the work needed to make a quality electronic version. Printers don't use the same files which are given to the public (they have much larger file sizes for one thing) and the hardcover designs aren't integrated into the same layout.

I must concede here as I do not have first hand knowledge of PDF publishing.

4. There is added, technical, customer support needed for downloads that is handled by retailers for printed materials. Not to mention added complaints if the thing is down for an upgrade, etc.

See above. But there are still smaller companies that do it.

5. This won't be popular, but businesses want to establish a relationship with their customers. Confirming that a real person is behind a transaction (by collecting a token amount of money over the internet) is a great boon to one-on-one marketing. I doubt this is more than a minor concern but it can help a company help their customers better.

I'm sure I've forgotten something so others can add to this list.

So there are real people behind online transactions? That's news to me...I thought most, if not all were handled by software built for that purpose. Anyway this thread isn't here to discuss this and I feel like it's getting sidetracked enough, and really don't want to contribute to that any more. So, I will leave the debate over the "nominal fee" for others to discuss after this.

 

[Klaus]

The idea was just to get gnomes into a product, and to give them some "definition" for those folks who feel they have lost their purpose as anything other than 'Dwarf Lite'. Technology as a source has definately got some merit given the various technologies (magically inspired or not) in various settings.

Technology sourced classes would not be exclusive to gnomes. They would be available to everyone, unless you the GM take the active stance that a given power source doesn't exist in your campaign. That wouldn't invalidate the entire book either, since their would be 2 (if they stick to 3 per PHB) other power sources presented as well as races and other content not directly tied to power sources.

Move gnomes closer to their "fey" origins. Roll svirfneblin into the gnome racial abilities and you have a very distict race.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

You don't have to. The e-book copies of the hardcover books are there for convenience. But they're not, as I understand the plan, tied in any way to the online tabletop.

As I understand the plan, you could play 3.5 with it. Or GURPS, if you fancy playing on a square grid instead of hexes.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

A few simple rules apply to free stuff, especially on the internet.

1. People value something that's free much less than something they pay for.

2. Downloads cost very little on a piece by piece basis. But huge volumes can still add up to a large bill. Free downloads are an opening asking for a Denial of Service type attack or being overwhelmed like the 4th edition site when it went live. See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slashdotted.

3. Preparing the printed product is most, but not all, of the work needed to make a quality electronic version. Printers don't use the same files which are given to the public (they have much larger file sizes for one thing) and the hardcover designs aren't integrated into the same layout.

4. There is added, technical, customer support needed for downloads that is handled by retailers for printed materials. Not to mention added complaints if the thing is down for an upgrade, etc.

5. This won't be popular, but businesses want to establish a relationship with their customers. Confirming that a real person is behind a transaction (by collecting a token amount of money over the internet) is a great boon to one-on-one marketing. I doubt this is more than a minor concern but it can help a company help their customers better.

I'm sure I've forgotten something so others can add to this list.

I think that we can assume that electronic editions will be issued patches when errata appear. Development and implementation of those patches costs money.

edit: someone also pointed out in another thread that by registering your user info, you open yourself up to identity theft, a la White Wolf. Paying a fee to unlock the electronic stuff will help to pay for the security measures that must be in place to prevent that.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

I don't really mind gnomes. I don't mind tech, either -- though my homebrew is very Medieval. I also probably came off more starky than I meant to.

I've gotten soured on techie gnomes the same way I've gotten soured on halfling/kender "borrowers" and lesbian dominatrix drow assassins.

One of the reasons that I like Eberron's gnomes is that they've been reimagined as an extremely inquisitive, intellectually-minded race with an abiding passion for knowledge in all its forms.

This actually has room within it for "technological gnomes" and "close to the earth" gnomes, and it gives the race a more well-rounded feel.

I mean, you could imagine a gnomish warrior who was always poring over old texts, learning from the tactics and strategies of ancient generals and blademasters . . .

Edited to add: Even if you roll the more fey, svirfneblin-like abilities into the core gnome race, that works perfectly well with this vision of the gnome. Their fey nature is what they are, their endless quest for knowledge is what they do.

 

[Ashardalon]

So, we've been told that Psionics will eventually enter the SRD. Now we're also being told that Psionics will be in a PH. If I know my math, that seems to add up to an interesting number.