4E Poorly Rated on Amazon...

[AllisterH]

I think the 4E DMG is the best ever DMG for D&D.

This is a DMG that actually gives advice and teaches you how to be a DM whereas I thought the 3.5 DMG was great for those that are ALREADY DMs.

Seriously, I've already lent out my DMG to one of my players and he actually thinks he can be a DM whereas the 3.5 DMG was just not suited for him (too many things he thought he had to remember).

 

[simply not edible]

I wish a few 'veteran DMs' I've known would take a long hard look at the 4e DMG's advice.

It would be a golden opportunity to unlearn decades of accumulated bad habits.

Oh, this. Definitely. Having had a DM "experienced through the years", and running the game "without needing the books", I know how badly those books are needed.

Some of the best DM's I know can't get enough advice, and some of the worst I know think they know enough. This might just alter my judgement in this case.

 

[Weregrognard]

I'll have another look next time I'm around the books.

I have to admit, though, the DMG index is poo on a sidewalk on a hot summer's day. Looking up traps and hazards will take you on a merry chase that won't leave you anywhere near p.85.

 

[marv]

Artifacts "like" you - they have a rating that changes depending on whether you do things that advance their cause, or if you're troublesome to them. The more they like you, the more powers you have.
Also, Artifacts tend to "move on" after a few levels. The Hand of Vecna is not something you want to move on...

I like this idea a great deal. I think I'll incorperate it in my 3.5 champains. My wheels are already turning... I just bought Weapons of Legacy... humm.....

To some extent, I look at this from the point of view of a teacher or D&D evangelist: Is this something that will help new to intermediate DMs? I think it will, and that's something to be thankful for.
Cheers!

I agree, which gets back to my point that the 4th Ed. DMG's target audiance is only for new DMs. It's my feeling that previous edition's targeted both new and experienced DMs.

 

[MerricB]

I like this idea a great deal. I think I'll incorperate it in my 3.5 champains. My wheels are already turning... I just bought Weapons of Legacy... humm.....

Have fun. WoL gave me a lot of good use during the past couple of years.

I agree, which gets back to my point that the 4th Ed. DMG's target audiance is only for new DMs. It's my feeling that previous edition's targeted both new and experienced DMs.

Could you give examples of how previous editions helped experienced DMs? I'm not saying they didn't (I think they did!), but having an idea of specific elements that you think helped experienced DMs will allow some comparison with how 4e handles the same matters.

Cheers!

 

[rounser]

I have to admit, though, the DMG index is poo on a sidewalk on a hot summer's day. Looking up traps and hazards will take you on a merry chase that won't leave you anywhere near p.85.

I'm beginning to think that because the rules see multiple things handled by one mechanic, that perhaps they should repeat that mechanic in multiple places instead of saying it once in passing, hiding somewhere in the text.

 

[eyebeams]

But being #36 is good hard factual data of how well it is selling. This is an indicator that it is doing good, and those that like 4E rejoice in the notion that their game line is doing good. A game line doing good means more support and extra goodies. And its also a good counter argument against '1 star' ratings, it just goes to show you that the actual review isn't as honest as it should be. IMHO a game that sells so well should not get 50% '1 star' reviews.

No, it's terrible factual data. It's not "hard" at all. Amazon rankings are relative to other products, not based on absolute sales, and are updated at different rates depending on where they rank. There have been workups done to convert rankings to absolute sales, but the positions of each can differ by up to a factor of 10.

The upper rankings do accurately measure which title sells more than which. The conclusion we can make is that D&D currently sells better than Ken Follet's The Pillars of the Earth (an 18 year old novel), but not as a good as a a year-old travel memoir. Follet's novel is one of the bestselling novels of all time, though.

 

[BryonD]

IMHO a game that sells so well should not get 50% '1 star' reviews.

Are you suggesting that it is impossible that a lot of people bought the game and then decided that they didn't like ti once they had a chance to read it?

I must point out the irony that the unending defense of 4E was that anyone who didn't like it simply did not yet know enough. I guess that is out the window now....

 

[marv]

Overall, I probably like the 3.*e DMGs more

Just found this INTERESTING quote (above) from your blog.

Could you give examples of how previous editions helped experienced DMs? I'm not saying they didn't (I think they did!), but having an idea of specific elements that you think helped experienced DMs will allow some comparison with how 4e handles the same matters.

Yes, the other DMGs had two key design philosophies which the 4th Ed. did not:

• Some rules (such as details on magic items) are better left in the DM's hands. A more experienced DM can use this to his (the campaign’s) advantage. A less experienced DM is better off with the players helping out with the rules. What putting certain rules in the DMG does is keeps more of a sense of mystery during the game. This is not a miniatures or board game we're playing. It's one of mutual story telling that's only possible if the DM has a leg up on certain rules.

• Provide tables and details which a DM can use to turn his own ideas into an adventure or campaign without him/her having to buy anything else. A more experienced DM is much more likely to invent his own. Before I had kids, I used to make my own settings and adventures completely from scratch. That would be impossible with the 4th Ed. DMG as my only aid. Sadly, with time short, I'm currently forced to rely heavily on store bought material (currently The Shackled City, by Pazio). However, eventually, my kids will leave the nest and I'll have time to make my own worlds and adventures again.... the 4th Ed. DMG would be a poor choice for me to get ideas and building blocks from.

 

[hong]

• Some rules (such as details on magic items) are better left in the DM's hands. A more experienced DM can use this to his (the campaign’s) advantage. A less experienced DM is better off with the players helping out with the rules. What putting certain rules in the DMG does is keeps more of a sense of mystery during the game. This is not a miniatures or board game we're playing. It's one of mutual story telling that's only possible if the DM has a leg up on certain rules.

Keeping the rules mysterious is the shallowest and most insipid form of mystery you can get.