D&D 3E/3.5 4E Ruined My Love For 3.5

[cdrcjsn]

Exactly. Apples and oranges.

Or in this case, Apples, Oranges and rotten Apples.

 

[Khuxan]

Back on topic, there will be elements of 3e that I will miss. I started role-playing with 3.0 and I loved its internal consistency. No effort was spared on my part to make everything compatible - if WotC changed their prestige class format, all the homebrew prestige classes I wrote would be edited to match it.

And I loved its mechanical robustness. That a gaze attack was a gaze attack was a gaze attack. That one goblin had the abilities of every other goblin, that I could make a goblin warrior 20 if I really wanted.

But I've come to realise that that model of design is simply unsustainable in an RPG. So I don't hate 3E, I pity it. And I wish that Pathfinder had focused more on 3.5's strengths instead of creating 3.75. Because I love how they've streamlined diseases, poisons and curses into 'Afflictions'.

 

[Jack99]

I don't get it. If you're comparing a tabletop rpg to an MMO, and the latter is the cat's meow, why even bother buying the PH? Even DnD 4E is going to require a DM, players, at least one rulebook (the PH), dice, pencils, and paper. WoW and EQ on the other hand, require a PC, software, and an Internet connection.

I am not comparing those. DND is more than just a game, it is a hobby if you will, that I have passed time with since around '89. Other RPG's have never appealed to me and my group of players, which has remained unchanged for the last 19 years, more or less.

3.5 has proved not to be an edition that I care to play. If 4e turns out to not be for us, we will have the options of playing an older edition, or not play at all. My bet would be on not play at all. Should that happen, I would turn to my other hobby, and focus on that, for fun and games, and that hobby would be raiding the endgame in MMORGS.

I hope I made it clear that I am in no way comparing the two games, it merely happens so that both are (or have been) hobbies of mine.

Cheers

 

[Cadfan]

The announcement of 4e hasn't changed my opinion of 3e one bit. It has, however, changed my expectations and wants. Before 4e was announced, I was bugged by the effect of magic at high levels, the crappiness of first and second level play, the need to plan your character meticulously in advance if you wanted to use PRCs, the 5 minute workday, the degree of complexiting in tracking multiple buff spells with varying durations for every single character in the party, the way quirks in the math made certain things that should be good instead turn out to suck, the way you HAD to have four fights a day or the game didn't work right, and so forth.

But I had years of DMing 3e under my belt, and I knew where to use workarounds, and where to just grin and bear it. So I could run a pretty darn good game.

Since the announcement of 4e, I've had less desire to use those workarounds, and less desire to grin and bear a problem in the game. Now that I know there's a game out there that solves these problems while still adhering to the underlying theme of D&D, I'd rather play it than 3e.

I have no doubt I'll feel the same way in 8 years. Each edition of D&D does a sort of "bug fix" on the previous edition, then tries some new stuff. Inevitably, in a game as complex as D&D, some of the new stuff has problems. But we'll get a one or two year period where no one has fully figured out all the problems, which will function as a sort of armistice, and then after that I'll have my workarounds again. So we'll be back to where we started, except with a more vibrant game thanks to the addition of new material, and the deletion of shabby material.

Honestly, my biggest fear is that too many shabby legacy elements will still be around. Specifically, I'm worried about crappy spells being included so that people won't freak out when their favorite (but stupid) spell isn't in the game. This is not a game that truly needs the spell Erase, for example.

 

[SpiderMonkey]

I love 3.5. If 4e winds up being not for me, I have no problem going back to it.

Well, except for the assumed economy.

Uh...and the disparity between classes.

Hmm...and it is kind of a pain to run crowds of monsters.

Yeah.

So, anyway, the guy I play D&D with most had started talking about some of the things we were dissatisfied with about the system, and how maybe we could start house-ruling some things. This was a bit disappointing, because I hadn't bothered with house rules since back in 2e.

And then the sexy new kid, 4e, shows up. Yup.

 

[SSquirrel]

But from my point of view, they feel like two very different games...the claim that 4E is killing one's love for 3.5 is like saying Clue killed one's love for Monopoly. (shrug)

See for me, either way still feels like playing D&D, just 4E feels more flexible and doesn't make me want to poke out my own eyes rather than start a character at 1st level I have never understood the whole "it isn't D&D anymore" crowd personally. Not saying you are part of it, just an extra observation.

 

[phil500]

so do you think paizo screwed it up by deciding not to 4E?

remember, most people here are here because they are nuts about 4e, so a little bias.

 

[Ghaerdon Fain]

Maybe Ive lost my mind but shouldn't 3.5 been 4E?

Until I read thses comments I felt in the minority. 2e was ok but the rules seemed to take over. To be truthful 3.x is a blur with only ten dming experience. To me 4E is freedom. I can DM without spending my life planing and scouring books.

My concern, as much as I love 4E, is that as a DM Im going to be multitasking management of powers... And that scars the bejesus out of me!

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

so do you think paizo screwed it up by deciding not to 4E?

remember, most people here are here because they are nuts about 4e, so a little bias.

I honestly don't know. From my perspective, their choice is bad. But from their perspective, it might work out fine. There seem to be enough people that really believe "it's not D&D any more" or that say "I've got so much material for 3E, I don't want to buy into another edition" that it might work. What I see in their Pathfinder Alpha doesn't look like "unfun", but it pretty much invalidates all Prestige Classes of 3E, which is a bunch of material, and it doesn't really improve the balance issues, either.

Maybe it's just that they really didn't have a choice. Without Dragon & Dungeon, they needed to do something _now_, not when some GSL with unknown restrictions appeared for a system none of them had seen yet. I am pretty sure that 4E would work really great with every type of adventure Paizo planned, but could they have known that beforehand? Who trusts WotC?

 

[BryonD]

4E has renewed my appreciation for the heights that 3E is able to achieve.