D&D 3E/3.5 4E Ruined My Love For 3.5

[Ruined]

I'm really eager to tackle 4e, and have run a few test sessions. It looks like it will be a good match for the games we enjoy.

This hasn't caused me to loathe 3.x though. Yes, I've houseruled a sizeable chunk of the rules, but it's still recognizeable as 3.x D&D. And I really have daydreamed about converting my two existing games (Rise of Runelords, Age of Worms) into 4e to make them easier/more fun. But I probably won't, as conversion looks to be a bear, and I've personally had horrible results switching systems in the midst of a campaign.

But I just ran a session of 3.5 last night, and it was a blast. I know I'm fortunate because I have great players, but I don't begrudge the system we use. It has its shortcomings, as I'm sure 4e will reveal over time. That doesn't mean I'm looking to torch my books at the first opportunity for change. I dropped 2nd ed for other systems like WFRP back in the day; if 3.5 was that horrible, I would have already made a switch.

 

[TerraDave]

Why just today I was doing some work on my big finally 3.5 session. I am really excited about it, but the rules/npcs/prep (ie 3.5) part of it is just a total pain in the a**.

I remember when 3.0 was such a great game. It was a while ago. If 4E was not coming out, I would still be ending my current campaign ASAP and trying something else.

Playing 4E did however renew my interest in staying with D&D.

 

[Xanaqui]

Xan, if you're willing to share them, please do. I'm as done with 3E as I am with eating bacon on my ice cream, but I'm sure as heck curious.

Mid-high level 3E magic killed my campaigns. Three times. Even though we soldiered on.

Wis

The simplest technique I've found isn't even a rules change - just heavily encourage major spellcasters to use buffs, and lots of them. If needed, create some more spells, pump up their power, and/or give them to the spellcasters for free so that they have plenty of buffs to use. Assuming that they then use these buffs on party members, the other party members will feel more useful, even if the buffs are doing 50% or more of the damage. As a nice side-effect, the major spellcasters will be weaker, since they're casting a significant percentage of their power on buffs.

While I've written up my own magic system (point based, as in you can spend a set number of points per round), my more typical approaches include some of the following:

1) Design the cosmos so that intraplanar magic doesn't work. That's a couple groups of painful magic gone.
2) Nerf or destroy "save or die" type effects.
3) Enhance the magic items for non-major spellcasters, while refraining from touching magic items for major spellcasters. There are many ways to do this, including:
3.1) Give a bunch of artifacts, none of which help spellcasting, but several of which help melee/missile/skills/etc.
3.2) Make items that tend to help spellcasters more expensive (or, conversely those that don't less expensive).
3.3) Give everyone access to powerful magical effects. As an example, if everyone can cast Wail of the Banshee twice a day, the fact that the Wizard/Sorcerer can cast it a couple more times per day won't seem as extreme.
4) Reduce the skill bonuses from spells/magical sources. I tend to lump all magical bonuses into a single category, have a hard limit of 10 (other than artifacts), and put limits to the bonuses gainable from spells (such as 1 + spell level)
5) Flight is hard. Make it a skill, which any non-natural flier (such as one using a spell to fly) has a good chance of falling unless they spend a bunch of cross-class skill points or are doing something really easy.
6) Some classes/races are weak. If I want to emphasize them, I give them a small number of additional abilities. As an example from my present campaign, Gnomes gain a free feat (from a choice of 2), and Bards have the ability to do Bardic Music at the same time as certain other actions (with a successful skill check, which gets harder depending on the level of the effect). If I don't want to emphasize them, I ignore them.
7) Change the world. No, Really. Change the world. Whether this is due to an arcane ritual, an invasion, killing off the panetheon, or the party just leaves the initial world via plane shift or the equivalent, it gives you free reign to change the magical rules to ones that are less advantageous to major spellcasters.

 

[Hussar]

I don't hate any system of D&D. I wouldn't play some versions anymore, but, that's not because I hate them, but because I like others better. I don't play lots of games anymore, but, again, that has nothing to do with hate.

I recognize a number of the flaws that they are talking about in 3e. I agree with most of the fixes. But, to be honest, I'll likely be waiting a year or so until the second printing before I jump on. I remember what an unholy mess the first printing 3e books were and have no intention of being burned twice.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

The simplest technique I've found isn't even a rules change - just heavily encourage major spellcasters to use buffs, and lots of them. If needed, create some more spells, pump up their power, and/or give them to the spellcasters for free so that they have plenty of buffs to use. Assuming that they then use these buffs on party members, the other party members will feel more useful, even if the buffs are doing 50% or more of the damage. As a nice side-effect, the major spellcasters will be weaker, since they're casting a significant percentage of their power on buffs.

While I've written up my own magic system (point based, as in you can spend a set number of points per round), my more typical approaches include some of the following:

1) Design the cosmos so that intraplanar magic doesn't work. That's a couple groups of painful magic gone.
2) Nerf or destroy "save or die" type effects.
3) Enhance the magic items for non-major spellcasters, while refraining from touching magic items for major spellcasters. There are many ways to do this, including:
3.1) Give a bunch of artifacts, none of which help spellcasting, but several of which help melee/missile/skills/etc.
3.2) Make items that tend to help spellcasters more expensive (or, conversely those that don't less expensive).
3.3) Give everyone access to powerful magical effects. As an example, if everyone can cast Wail of the Banshee twice a day, the fact that the Wizard/Sorcerer can cast it a couple more times per day won't seem as extreme.
4) Reduce the skill bonuses from spells/magical sources. I tend to lump all magical bonuses into a single category, have a hard limit of 10 (other than artifacts), and put limits to the bonuses gainable from spells (such as 1 + spell level)
5) Flight is hard. Make it a skill, which any non-natural flier (such as one using a spell to fly) has a good chance of falling unless they spend a bunch of cross-class skill points or are doing something really easy.
6) Some classes/races are weak. If I want to emphasize them, I give them a small number of additional abilities. As an example from my present campaign, Gnomes gain a free feat (from a choice of 2), and Bards have the ability to do Bardic Music at the same time as certain other actions (with a successful skill check, which gets harder depending on the level of the effect). If I don't want to emphasize them, I ignore them.
7) Change the world. No, Really. Change the world. Whether this is due to an arcane ritual, an invasion, killing off the panetheon, or the party just leaves the initial world via plane shift or the equivalent, it gives you free reign to change the magical rules to ones that are less advantageous to major spellcasters.

What you made doesn't sound bad, but it's definitely not the 3E I played.

I was hoping more for strategies to deal with the NPC creating workload.