D&D 3E/3.5 4E Ruined My Love For 3.5

Posters who talk about hating D&D v3.5 really make me shake my head in bewilderment.

What have they been doing here on the boards for the past several years? Ranting about their undying hatred of the game? If so, I haven't seen it.

Maybe they just all joined up here to talk about D&D after the 4e announcement....
 

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Wolfspider said:
Posters who talk about hating D&D v3.5 really make me shake my head in bewilderment.

What have they been doing here on the boards for the past several years? Ranting about their undying hatred of the game? If so, I haven't seen it.

Maybe they just all joined up here to talk about D&D after the 4e announcement....

You ought to know by now, that logic always fails on the Internet.....
 

What have they been doing here on the boards for the past several years? Ranting about their undying hatred of the game? If so, I haven't seen it.



In all likelyhood, they were playing 3.5 because their buddies were, and were on the boards for the same reasons as everyone else- to gain tips.

Look at it this way: I hate GURPS. I really hate GURPS.

But for 4 years, I played a lot of it because the game group I was in played a lot fo GURPS. We played other games as well- RIFTS, HERO, D&D, Mekton, Mechwarrior, a playtest of ACE...but GURPS probably accounted for 25% of all of the campaigns run in that group, more than any other game except maybe D&D.

And despite my dislike of the game, I played it anyway because I liked the gamers (well, most of them, anyway). Had there been a site like this for GURPS (and I had had a working modem) back then, I would have been on it trying to get tips from other GURPS players.

Now, I still buy GURPS supplements- they're among the best out there- but if asked to play a GURPS game, I'd have to ask who else would be participating- if the group wasn't cool, I wouldn't play.
 
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hong said:
I do believe we have a failure to communicate. It is indeed better to play an MMO than a crap RPG. Just as it is better to play an MMO than have your teeth pulled, be in a car crash, invest in Bear Stearns shares, get involved in a land war in Asia, and so on. Of course, one may quibble about the degree of crappiness at which the decision boundary is set, but the underlying principle is valid. There is nothing magical about the category of things called "tabletop RPGs" that means the utility gained from playing them must uniformly exceed that gained from playing MMOs.QUOTE]

Hong is clever and wise.
 

4e has had some affect on my opinion of 3.5e, which IMO, was the best published version of D&D (I think that 4e will supercede that in my rankings). At first, the release of various information did not have a lot of concrete effects, but as more and more of the system was revealed, it led me to the conclusion that 3.5e was unnecessarily complicated in some respects and that there were better ways to do things. It really crystallized for me two months ago while reading some of Paizo's adventures...I thought to myself, this is just way too clunky for my tastes as I started to think about it in 4e terms. It actually affected my enjoyment of some of their adventures (I don't have an active game, so I like to read adventures and think about how they would play), so it wasn't hard for me to cut back once they announced Pathfinder.
 

Wolfspider said:
What have they been doing here on the boards for the past several years? Ranting about their undying hatred of the game? If so, I haven't seen it.
You obviously didn't spend much time on the WotC boards prior to the 4e announcement. If you had, you would have seen how inundated they were with "3.5 is sooo broken!" threads. That's what the haters were doing before the announcement. Picking apart 3.5 and complaining about how it didn't work and how WotC just wanted their money and didn't care about making the game balanced anymore, etc etc. So yes, they were already there and they were already complaining. Many of them, myself included, continued to play 3.5 despite their distaste because we figured, warts and all, it was still the best thing out there ... Since the announcement, the complaining and the 3.5 hate has just taken on new forms.

In my particular circumstances, I've never really liked 3.5. I've always found it to be overly complex and too mathematical. After first picking it up in 2006 (I played 2e in the 90s, but gave up on D&D for about 5 years in the early 00s), I quickly found myself spending most of my DM prep time doing math or checking math or picking feats/skills/classes/whatever instead of creatively breathing life into my NPCs and their surroundings. In other words, my prep time was probably 95% crunch / 5% fluff. I would've preferred it to be the other way around but I stuck with it (while always looking for ways to be more efficient with the crunch). At first I didn't really mind but gradually it just became more and more of a chore, especially as the time I could spend on prep grew smaller and smaller as real life crowded in on it ...

99% of what I've read about 4e (or have seen for myself using the preview material) has either addressed/fixed the things I dislike about 3.5 or has renewed my faith in the system. Once again, I find myself inspired to come up with all sorts of interesting plot hooks, NPCs, and locations. Once again, I find myself wanting to play D&D ... whereas I don't ever want to play 3.5 again and I don't really know how I ever managed to derive any enjoyment from it in the first place. My gaming group, older gamers who grew up on 1e and 2e all, are all just as eager for 4e as I am. None of them have really liked 3.5 either.

Sorry that this is ending up so long but I'd just like to make one last point ... I've seen a number of people dismiss 4e as "not being D&D", whereas 3.5 is their "ultimate D&D experience". My group and myself, none of whom are from the video game generation (well, I am a little bit ... I'm the youngest one in the group at 27), have found 3.5 to "not be D&D", whereas 4e sounds and feels very much like the D&D we remember from editions past.


Maybe they just all joined up here to talk about D&D after the 4e announcement....
For the record, I only really started posting here at ENWorld after the announcement -- mainly because the WotC boards pretty much died. That and ENWorld is a vastly superior source of 4e info than the WotC boards are (hell, you're even more likely to meet WotC staffers here than on their own boards!).
 
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phil500 said:
so do you think paizo screwed it up by deciding not to 4E?

remember, most people here are here because they are nuts about 4e, so a little bias.
From a business perspective or an "ability to pump out really cool product" perspective. For the later, I'm skeptical that there is as much "design space" left in 3e for them to make something uniquely interesting, as the adventure paths would likely have equal coolness in 4e, were they to try it. From the business perspective, they've gotta hope the concept of 1000 true fans applies to 3e grognards. It's certainly the risky choice, and if they are right, then their business should be relatively stable and profitable.
 

Darth Cyric said:
D&D 3.x is the only RPG system I have ever played or run for which I can safely estimate that I could make a nice 300-page book out of my own house rules. And very few of those would be tweaks of preference or flavor.
This, except that I'll own up to a fair bit of it being preference.

Yet I love it to bits anyway, which may be irrational on my part.
 

pukunui said:
You obviously didn't spend much time on the WotC boards prior to the 4e announcement. If you had, you would have seen how inundated they were with "3.5 is sooo broken!" threads. That's what the haters were doing before the announcement. Picking apart 3.5 and complaining about how it didn't work and how WotC just wanted their money and didn't care about making the game balanced anymore, etc etc. So yes, they were already there and they were already complaining. Many of them, myself included, continued to play 3.5 despite their distaste because we figured, warts and all, it was still the best thing out there ... Since the announcement, the complaining and the 3.5 hate has just taken on new forms.

Well, I really wasn't talking about the WotC boards; you're right in that I have no experience with them. I was referring mostly to ENWorld.

In any case, I just find it hard to believe that so many people would "hate" D&D v3.5 and yet still play it and that it would remain the most popular RPG in the world.

Doesn't make much sense to me....
 

Wolfspider said:
Well, I really wasn't talking about the WotC boards; you're right in that I have no experience with them. I was referring mostly to ENWorld.

In any case, I just find it hard to believe that so many people would "hate" D&D v3.5 and yet still play it and that it would remain the most popular RPG in the world.

Doesn't make much sense to me....

I think there were probably a lot of 3.5 players out there who played the game with various degrees of disatisfcation; the release of 4e probably crystallized a lot of those complaints.
 

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