D&D 3.x 4E Simulationism: Did 3.5E Really Do That Good of a Job?

[BryonD]

Just pretending to have fun???

I was just playing along....

 

[Valdrax]

It's not a great but at least it tries. I'm happy to play games without super simulationism but Im aprehensive about how 4E is shunting it for fun in every case. I've played in such games before and I don't personaly enjoy the tyrany of fun.

This just in -- simulationist players find "fun" an oppressive and unnecessary intrusion into their recreational past-times. I mean, honestly. I've never heard of the concept of having fun in a game described as "tyrannical" before.

Most simulationist players I've known just said that immersion itself was what was fun and not combat or other challenges, but this kind of takes the cake.

 

[Wormwood]

Just pretending to have fun???
Hope you are joking .... why someone should 'pretend to have fun?

I'll ask my wife.

 

[Steely Dan]

I'll ask my wife.

Ha ha! "I faked all of my role-playing while we were together!"


That's why I dig you, Wormwood – you don't take yourself or this ridiculous game too seriously.

 

[Drammattex]

3e did a great job simulating a courtroom where the judge was on trial, despite "rule 0."

 

[UngeheuerLich]

D&D 3rd edition is terrible at beeing simulationist. It has spells to regenerate lost limbs, but no way to actually lose a limb with any rule. And it is so strictly ruled that at i hesitate to invent such a rule, because it seems like cheating to me.

If the rules are more general, more exception based with streamlined rules, it seems to be much fairer to make exceptions, because 4th edition is based on them.

You want a trap to cut a limb, n.p. exception to the general rule. You want a player to cut an enemies limb, np. exception, but a very very hard task (somethink like -10 to hit). Why does it work with 4th edition: -10 is equally penalizing at every level. In 3rd edition -10 at level 10 usually is a joke.

So conclusion: As 4th edition seems to be more gamist than 4th edition, it

a) seems to be coherent
b) seems to be easily adjustable

 

[Steely Dan]

3e did a great job simulating a courtroom where the judge was on trial, despite "rule 0."

Now that is totally awesome and pithy – good job!

3rd Ed definitely had a bit of the player pleasing/DMs go screw themselves vibe, which makes me wonder, who are looking forward to 4th Ed the most, players or DMs?

I would hate to think that some people are resistant to 4th Ed because they can no longer pull off their campaign/encounter ruining/DM headache moves that they have so enjoyed for many years.

 

[rkanodia]

3e did a great job simulating a courtroom where the judge was on trial, despite "rule 0."

So, so true.

 

[Lizard]

Now that is totally awesome and pithy – good job!

3rd Ed definitely had a bit of the player pleasing/DMs go screw themselves vibe, which makes me wonder, who are looking forward to 4th Ed the most, players or DMs?

I would hate to think that some people are resistant to 4th Ed because they can no longer pull off their campaign/encounter ruining/DM headache moves that they have so enjoyed for many years.

As a DM, I am not looking forward to 4e, because I think it deprives me of tools I use and places the focus on me constantly arbitrating/making up rules/handwaving/dealing with arguments instead of just running the game, having fun, and trusting that when an edge case comes up, the rules will handle it. I want to focus on worldbuilding, cool NPCs, interesting plots, and being astonished at what my players do with what I give them -- not with making excuses for why marks vanish or having to make sure none of my combat flavor text implies a wound which can't be healed with a long nap. ("The hoggoblin's spear pierces your shoulder...no, wait, that's too much, it scratches you. Yeah.")

I do not want to run Amber Dungeon Crawl. Nor do I want to see players constrained in their creativity by narrowly focused spells/classes/powers. Nor do I want to turn a living, interactive world into a series of staged encounters.

A lot depends on what is actually in the DMG, if it continues this trend of too few rules, or if this is just a consequence of the stripped-down rules used for the DDE demo games.

 

[Lizard]

3e did a great job simulating a courtroom where the judge was on trial, despite "rule 0."

A judge who is not himself bound by the law is a tyrant.