D&D 4E 4e Special Ability PER Encounter stinks...

[hong]

One of my other potential problems with the per encounter basis is that the majority of my D&D encounters don't involve combat; they involve diplomacy, trap-finding, puzzle solving, et cetera. I'm hoping that the designers pay equal attention to non-combat, non-dungeon crawling encounters, because that's what my games tend to revolve around more. Upping the paladin's capacity to smite evil from once a day to once a minute doesn't do much for my players, since the ability isn't always even used once a day.

"Encounter" = "opportunity to interact in a significant way with the environment"

You don't need WotC to give you a definition.

 

[sukael]

One of my other potential problems with the per encounter basis is that the majority of my D&D encounters don't involve combat; they involve diplomacy, trap-finding, puzzle solving, et cetera. I'm hoping that the designers pay equal attention to non-combat, non-dungeon crawling encounters, because that's what my games tend to revolve around more.

It's already been said by the developers - I can't remember where, can someone supply the link? - that they'll be adding social combat rules (instead of just Bluff/Diplomacy/Intimidate/Sense Motive as single rolls) to the mix.

Also, traps will probably be more in the style of Dungeonscape, where "encounter traps" are built as a full encounter for the party instead of just an obstacle for the rogue to disable.

 

[Asmor]

An encounter is over when the PCs have some down time. It's simple as that. If you really want specifics, let's go with 1 minute of down time. Any time the PCs can sit back and not do anything stressful for 1 minute, the encounter's over.

It's not a matter of time, it's a matter of focus. You just need a chance to regain your concentration and composure and you're right back in the game.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

I thought about it, and it would be very easy to make per encounter abilities that required 8 hours of rest.

if it takes 10 min to recharge after a encounter. only allow these 10 minute recharge 3 times a day. simple conversion from 4e back to 3.5.

 

[Nyeshet]

So the fact that it says "x times per encounter" instead of "x times before you can rest for 1 minute" is what you are against?

Actually, I think I like this idea far more than x/encounter. It makes sense in several respects that if you have a more or less at will ability that cannot be used every round that the reason it cannot be used every round is that one needs to rest a bit between uses.

So the Paladin takes a deep breath, draws upon the vast strength of his faith and will and Smites the foe. Having done so, he takes a moment to refocus his will at his next opportunity. Perhaps it takes only a moment - only a single round spent not moving or attacking or some other strenuous action. Perhaps it takes a few moments of prayerful contemplation, a full minute that cannot be readily attained in the midst of combat. Either way, it makes a nice thematic limitation upon how often he can use his ability. Requiring only a single round means he can fall back for a moment or two before rushing in again. Requiring a minute of prayer to reinvigorate the intensity of his faith, will, morale, etc means it will likely be a once per combat action unless things are going well enough that he can fall back for a full minute - in which case it probably isn't needed in most instances.

I also like the fact that it almost seems to flow well with fictional examples, such as where the character takes a moment (or three) to hype themselves into whatever level of morale, rage, etc they need to perform the action. Or perhaps it is a thief, taking a few moments to steady their hands before attempting a complex lock picking or deft purse cutting. All in all, I really like this idea - over and above the "x per encounter" idea.


On the other hand, has anyone else noticed the similarities between this and a psion (or psychic warrior, etc) refocusing after expending focus for a psionic feat, class ability, etc?

 

[Dalamar]

But "x times before 1 minute of rest/refocusing" is exactly the same as "x times per encounter", since the two main sources for such abilities (Bo9S and SWSE) both include a note saying that, if it matters, per encounter abilities refresh if you have 1 minute to rest or meditate.

It seems like people are against calling the mechanic "per encounter" more than the mechanic itself.

 

[FireLance]

On the other hand, has anyone else noticed the similarities between this and a psion (or psychic warrior, etc) refocusing after expending focus for a psionic feat, class ability, etc?

Yes, as I stated in another post:

"Per encounter" abilities might refer to abilities that are explicitly defined to refresh at the start of each encounter, but they might also refer to any of the following:

1. Abilities with a fairly short recharge time that nonetheless will last more than a typical encounter, say 1 or more minutes. 3e dragon breath is a similar mechanic, although the recharge time was measured in rounds.

2. Abilities that require some time to ready, and which are either difficult or impossible to ready in combat. 3.5e psionic focus is an example of such an ability. At lower levels, at least, it is generally difficult to regain your psionic focus in the middle of a fight, but regaining it is almost automatic between encounters.

Changing spell preparation (for some spells, at least) to remove the need for eight hours' rest and to simply require one or two minutes of meditation, prayer, or studying spellbooks effectively turns such spells into per encounter abilities without explicitly defining them as such.

 

[Geron Raveneye]

But "x times before 1 minute of rest/refocusing" is exactly the same as "x times per encounter", since the two main sources for such abilities (Bo9S and SWSE) both include a note saying that, if it matters, per encounter abilities refresh if you have 1 minute to rest or meditate.

It seems like people are against calling the mechanic "per encounter" more than the mechanic itself.

Yep, I think you hit the nail on the head for a lot of posts I've seen about that topic as well. "Per encounter" seems to be the red flag here, not the "Use and then recharge for X actions/rounds/minutes/hours" mechanic.

After all, if you believe some of the anti-Vancian examples that pop up around here, Vancian casters treat their spells as "per encounter" ability as well, in that they use them all up in one encounter and then force everybody else to rest with them in order to recharge to be ready for the next encounter.

On a more serious note, "use and recharge" is a more useful description than "per encounter", since it allows the insertion of a time frame during which the power is recharged, and thus gives DMs a better handle to deal with during game play. It's easier to deal with a "this power requires one minute spent doing absolutely nothing but focussing/praying/meditating to recharge" than with a "this ability can be used once per encounter"...which is probably why there's so much opposition to the label.

Apart from some old hands, who simply prefer special abilities to be much rarer and not pop up every battle, in order to keep the use of them something special, for various reasons. One thing is for sure...this kind of ability mechanic opens a few nice options for roleplaying. Like the Holy Warrior praying to his god for the souls of the fallen after a battle, replenishing the blessings of his god and making sure all valorous souls reach their destination. Can you imagine the shock on the face on that Holy Warrior when he cannot refresh his abilities because he behaved against his faith during battle, and the DM keeps his god-given abilities from him for the duration of the next battle he faces, so he can atone? Definitely roleplaying potential here.

 

[FireLance]

One thing is for sure...this kind of ability mechanic opens a few nice options for roleplaying. Like the Holy Warrior praying to his god for the souls of the fallen after a battle, replenishing the blessings of his god and making sure all valorous souls reach their destination. Can you imagine the shock on the face on that Holy Warrior when he cannot refresh his abilities because he behaved against his faith during battle, and the DM keeps his god-given abilities from him for the duration of the next battle he faces, so he can atone? Definitely roleplaying potential here.

If this means that paladins can "fall" for a specified number of encounters, I'm all for it!

 

[Li Shenron]

ok, the title is perhaps somewhat provoking (or not) but what does anyone think of special abilities useable X-times per encounter?

i personally do not like this approach, because encounter is something which can be from a short battle to a long battle, or even not be a combat encounter at all...so lets say you have a short encounter of 2 minutes of playtime: you can use special ability x here once. then there is a nother encounter taking 2 hours and still you can use special ability x only once here? remind you, encounter not necessarily means combat encounter... i think the whole useable per encounter thing stinks...

Here's what I think about it.

I don't dislike the whole idea, but I think it turns D&D into a very different game.

With all previous editions of D&D, the fact that spells (and most importantly, healing spells) were on a per-day basis, meant for me that all adventures became more like LotR, where encounters are scarce, and there's always some downtime (days or weeks) between important encounters or different adventures. Because more than 3 average encounters drain the party enough to require rest, and sometimes (particularly if the party was striken with level drain or similar thing) they need more days to recover. When you cannot fight, you're forced to think about other interesting things to do... or just "fast forward"

Now the main difference will be if healing powers becomes per-encounter rather than per-day. IMHO this will change all adventures seriously. PCs will rush quickly to finish a whole adventure in a day.

In some ways it seems better (more movie-like) but I usually prefer adventures to be book-like. All in all, I think it's probably still possible to have the book-like, but you're going to need to force the PCs to stop when they can instead continue, and some players will surely scream "railroading".

My other concern is that the official explanation for why something is per-encounter could be feeble (particularly for the martial abilities), and lower the suspension of disbelief.