D&D 4E 4E: The day the game ate the roleplayer?

[UngeheuerLich]

Maybe you play D&D wanting to create a character similar to Gandalf.

Gandalf is a level 1 wizard in 4e.

He can use light, magehand... did he cast any other spells than those two?l, i don´t remember... he can also use a staff and can carry a sword around...

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Seal, judge, seal, hammer of justice, judge, seal, crusader strike, seal, judge....

and thats a lot more than a first level 3.5 paladin can do.

 

[Cadfan]

In general, in adventure fiction of any stripe, there is a single hero with maybe a sidekick or two who are nowhere near as cool. It is a very rare piece of fiction that features several characters who are balanced in their coolness, and who share the protagonist spotlight.

In D&D, we don't do things this way. This is essentially for gamist reasons.

But they're good reasons.

 

[genjitsugaming]

Marauder concept

Took a few minutes to think about a possible implementation of a feral shifter class, and came up some proof-of-concept stuff for powers. I think the selection indicates the general direction it could go in and stay 4e-ish. The main point is that I don't think the specific forms are your fundamental powers, rather that (at least for this particular example, which is specifically based around shifting, as opposed to a druid who has it as one of several abilities) they enable other at-will, encounter or daily abilities.

Harry
Marauder Attack 1
You make sudden, distracting attacks at the enemy's face and sides, creating an opportunity for your ally to dart in.
At-Will ✦ Primal, Weapon or Form
Standard Action
Melee attack range
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. Reflex
Hit: 1[W] + Dexterity modifier damage, and the target grants combat advantage to one ally adjacent to it until the end of your next turn.

Menace
Marauder Attack 1
The target jumps back from your snarling lunge, unable to take its eyes off you.
At-Will ✦ Primal, Charm, Form
Standard Action
Melee attack range
Requirement: You can only use this power in hunter aspect.
Target: One creature
Attack: Charisma vs. Will
Hit: Dexterity modifier damage, push the target 1 space, and mark the target until the end of your next turn. A marked target takes a -2 penalty to any attack that does not include you as a target. A creature can have only one mark at a time, and a new mark supersedes a previous one.

Primal Form: Hunter Aspect
Marauder Feature
Your eyes suddenly shine back the torchlight as fur bristles from your skin and your fangs reach out for unguarded flesh.
Encounter ✦ Primal, Shapechange
Special: You can use hunter aspect, predator aspect or elemental aspect once per encounter, but not two or more of these in the same encounter.
Minor Action
Personal
Effect: You assume the form of a hunting animal of your own size, such as a wolf, jaguar or serpent. Your melee basic attack becomes a Dexterity vs. AC attack that deals 1d8 + Strength modifier damage (adjusted for size if you are smaller or larger than medium). You remain in this form until the encounter ends or you use a minor action to return to your natural form, which ends the power.

Hamstring
Marauder Attack 1
You tear at your target's leg tendons, ripping away at its ability to walk.
Encounter ✦ Primal, Form
Requirement: You can only use this power in hunter aspect.
Standard Action
Melee attack range
Attack: Dexterity vs. Reflex
Hit: 1[W] + Dexterity modifier damage, and the target is slowed (save ends).

Go for the Throat!
Marauder Attack 1
You leap on your prey, tearing away at a vital weak spot.
Daily ✦ Primal, Form
Requirement: You can only use this power in hunter aspect.
Standard Action
Melee attack range
Target: One creature
Special: You can shift 1 square before making your attack.
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage, and the target is knocked prone and takes ongoing damage equal to 5 + your Strength modifier (save ends).
Miss: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage.

As far as things like flying around as a crow or hawk, I think those would mostly fall under the heading of "class features" rather than powers, since they would primarily happen out of combat. The ability to fly would probably be something you had access to around 11th level, judging from all the bits I've gleaned here and there.

 

[Carnivorous_Bean]

But what these "foozles" do is pretty class specific. They don't look or feel the same to me, as far as I have seen from the DDXP samples. Even classes with the same combat role - Paladin and Fighter - have very different looking and feeling abilities.

It's like saying:
"D&D 3rd edition classes come only in two types - spellcasters and non-spellcasters. Spellcasters have per day powers, non-spellcasters don't. Everyone of them has the same 6 ability scores, the same saves, and they all have skills".
Clerics and Druids - despite sharing the same HD, BAB and type of spellcasting (divine) play very differently.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter, as well. The fact that all classes have foozles, maneuvers, or whatever, doesn't mean that they're all the same. If the mage foozle lets you cook 30 orcs in an instant with a blast of arcane fire, while a cleric foozle is totally unable to do that but can knit a ghastly wound (which the mage can't do), then I fail to see how they're the same, other than the fact that both of them do, indeed, exist.

 

[Jhulae]

"Leafildor, quickly, use your connection to the trees to make that oak there attack!"
"Um, I can't. That's a once per day thing."
"But you said you were the fallen prince of trees!"
"Well, I am! Once a day until the start of my next round."

"Leafildor, quickly, use your connection to the sky to call down the Storm of Vengeance!"
"Um, I can't. I only get one 9th level spell per day and I already used it."
"But you said you were the fallen prince of the sky!"
"Well, I am! Once a day until I get to pray again."

Same thing as in 3rd Edition. Same thing as in any previous edition really. I just see people making problems where none really exist.

 

[Wisdom Penalty]

I just spent 3-4 minutes reading the OP's post.

I'd give anything for those minutes back.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

In my gaming group, this became the substitute for roleplaying. That is to say, they believed that having unique abilities and being able to do stuff made their characters "interesting" and "three-dimensional."

It's funny how much more interesting roleplaying I get when I break out Donjon, and that game is a friggin' parody of the munchkinny aspects of D&D. But the thing is, the system is really simple and it makes for creative and interesting play. I'll add my opinion as weight behind your suspicion that character gets confused with capabilities in 3e.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

This is why I am glad too, my group and I view the rules as simply a peephole into this setting and the true essence of the setting and the characters go beyond the rules

 

[apoptosis]

It's funny how much more interesting roleplaying I get when I break out Donjon, and that game is a friggin' parody of the munchkinny aspects of D&D. But the thing is, the system is really simple and it makes for creative and interesting play. I'll add my opinion as weight behind your suspicion that character gets confused with capabilities in 3e.

That is cause CRN is great at creating games.

TSOY i feel is the best fantasy game out there.