4E with 1E Feel: Does that appeal to you?

[an_idol_mind]

I would be interested in a game that:

1) Restores most of the old D&D standards (druids, bards, half-orcs, et cetera), and

2) De-emphasizes tactical combat.

If that's what somebody means when they say 4th edition with 1st edition feel, I'm all for it. However, especially in the case of my second desire, I don't think it can happen without tearing apart the system pretty significantly.

As for the fact that many of the old D&D standards mentioned in my first desire will be added through upcoming rulebooks, that really doesn't do much for me. I went through 2nd edition carrying around 10-11 rulebooks in order to play the game I wanted, and I don't have a desire to do so ever again.

 

[thundershot]

*reads title*

Answer: No.




Chris

 

[Daniel D. Fox]

What exactly connotes a "1E feel"?

 

[radferth]

If, by 1E feel, they mean the following things Orcus has outlined:

1) Greater differentiation between classes

2) Combat rules less towards the miniatures-skirmish-game end of the spectrum

3) PCs start with a lower set of abilities,

then, yes, I would likely be interested. That being said, I am assuming even the revised GSL would not allow them to publish this; as everything I have heard from WotC leads me to believe they are trying to craft a license that would allow modules, but not new games (e.g. yes to Dungeon Crawl Classics, no to the 4e versions of Conan d20 and True 20). I hope I am wrong about this, as I would love to see what variants folks would come up with.

Side note to Tome of Horror fans: I agree its a great monster book. I do find it odd that while many illustrations in ToH that were of monsters originally appearing in the 1E Fiend Folio were amazing improvements (e.g the eye killer), any of the illustrations that were of real creatures (or their giant-sized versions) generally bore little resemblance to the real-life versions (e.g. false spider). I have to wonder if they even knew some of them were gaming versions of real creatures.

 

[Wisdom Penalty]

Good point on the licensing issue. This, like so many internet discussions, may be a moot point. That said, we see the APG on the street and now Goodman has their own versions of the 1e classes coming out - so maybe there's enough wiggle room to make it work.

WP

 

[Drammattex]

I think what confuses me is the desire to make 4e feel like 1e. Because if I really wanted to get a 1e feel, I would pull those books off my shelf and run 1e.

As stated in previous posts, "the 1e feel" is something very subjective. To me, the 1e feel is the idea that the world is a dark, dangerous place and that outside of civilization, strange creatures lurk in ancient ruins. That's the feel I had in 1e. They've brought it back for 4e and called it their "points of light" default setting, but to me it's the same. That may not be what "the 1e feel" means to everyone, but that was it for me. I could do without the mechanics, as I enjoy the new ones much more. However, if I wanted the feel of the old mechanics, I'd just use the old mechanics.

Heh, perhaps a bad metaphor, but the old Sierra games come to mind. I loved those games. Now, if you were to make a modern game with a Sierra game feel, it would be very different. Because of the limited graphics and sound capabilities, there was a lot left to the imagination in those old games. These days, the adventure game style is quite different. An improvement in many ways, but still, it would be hard to recapture that feeling (half supplemented by your imagination) of those other worlds rendered in EGA. It's a different beast.

 

[Henry]

There's a reason you can wade your 2nd level party through 20 orcs and expect to win.

That I'd love to see! If you had said "8th or 9th level party", I'd agree, but you're still talking suicide run in 1e, there. If the Magic user doesn't get his spell off (unlikely, with all those opponents), those orcs with the 17 THACO or so are smacking your poor AC 6 to 2 characters into oblivion.

I don't know the tangibles, myself, but I keep getting told my D&D games I run have that feel, whether that's a good thing or not. Me, having started in the 80's, I'm all for things that can preserve that feel, even in rules systems that are newer and more streamlined compared to older editions. 4e is a bit "retro" to me, anyway, so it doesn't have extremely far to go to get there.

 

[Mercule]

I really like 4E, and I want more Gygax in my game, not more Monte.

(No dis to Monte's skills, just my gaming preference. Greyhawk, not Ptolus, for my table, please.)

This. I realized long ago (about the time 3.5 was released) that Monte was really good with rules, and even wrote some well done flavor, but I did not care at all for his definition of fantasy feel or setting. AE may be a mechanically innovative and sound game, but the implied setting is not for me -- I strongly dislike all the races and most of the rest of the implied feel. Not a slam, just a realization that his stuff ain't for me -- I don't like Stephen King's writing style, either.

I've said it many times before, but "1st edition feel", to me, means that all balance isn't conducted around combat. Differing player styles are recognized and rewarded. The time in the spotlight is equalized, not the amount of damage they can do.

One great thing about 4e is that no one is ever completely useless. Fantastic. But, I don't care if my rogue (martial striker) can shine in combat next to the fighter. I play rogues because I like doing sneaky stuff, investigating events, setting up the bad guys, and taking them out when they're isolated. If I wanted to rock in a staged combat, I'd have played a fighter or a paladin.

 

[cougent]

While I'm happy to listen to any opinions on this, I'm really looking for those folks who currently are NOT interested in 4E but potentially WOULD BE interested in 4E if it could capture a "1E feel" ala Necromancer's 3e products.

Finally, I am the target audience again, yay!

As stated in the other thread, YES! Assuming that the product actually gives me a 1E Feel for 4E.

I agree that the 1E Feel is almost impossible to define, I could just QFT the wise one's second post for much of my 1E Feel, but there would still be some additions to that also. I think the best part was:

This ambiguous "1e feel" isn't for everyone, certainly. And my explanation of that feel is just that - mine. You could probably ask 42 different guys who cut their teeth on 1e what that "feel" is all about, and they'd tell you 42 different things.

I will evaluate any effort to entice me into the 4E-Fold, but so far all the efforts I have seen just did not do it.

I am still anxious to see what Red Brick does with creating a 4E EarthDawn setting as well.

 

[Irda Ranger]

So you picked up 4e and thought "Not for me."

Would Necro's attempt - possibly - make you interested to give it a(nother) shot?

Sure, in theory, if it fixed what I consider "wrong" with 4E at present. Based on the posts I've seen from the Necromancer guys I think they and I are on the same page.

But in practice I think the GSL is a major speed bump to this.