D&D 4E 4e Wizards - No More Necromancers, Enchanters, Summoners???

[Zaruthustran]

I think what they're doing is making specialist wizards more special.

As far as I can tell, the generic Wizard as described in 3E simply doesn't exist in 4E. The 4E Wizard is instead an Evoker. They probably should have called it that, rather than keep the old Wizard name.

It's kind of like how if you want to play "A guy that uses a sword to overcome foes", you can be a Ranger, a Fighter, a Rogue, a Warlord, or a Paladin. Many flavors of essentially the same guy. They all use the sword; it's how]/i] they use the sword that's different.

Same with magic. 4E magic (or "arcane") is a power source used by many classes, and it's how the magic is used that's different. 4E wizard? Evocations. Fire and thunder, wind and lightning. Explosions and bursts and magic missiles. It's all Tim the Enchanter stuff. Later classes will have the beguilers and necromancers and diviners and whatnot. I bet rituals (and multiclassing) will let you dabble in other methods of using magic, but your core abilities will be defined by a single approach to the arcane.

I *like* that change. I like that a wizard can't cast a big fireball on one turn, summon a critter on the next, and ensorcel a mind on the third turn. For the same reason, I like that my rogue can't lay on hands and enter into a rage. D&D is class-based, and the old 3E Wizard--a swiss army knife of powers that can literally duplicate ANY other class--just doesn't fit the game.

 

[perchy]

Another problem with wizards ofc, is that they were a 1 stat class, everything they needed was under "Int". Sure other classes all had a favorite stat, but there were other stats they needed in order to function well.

4e drops save DC's in favor of rolling to hit fort, ref and will defences.
Now i can't be sure, but i damned hope WotC haven't based this roll off int. Wisdom or Dex would mean that in addition to int. Hmm wait i was going to say something about extra spell per day here, but that doesn't really apply.

Hmm, basically, if 4e makes wizards a 2 stat (or more) class i'll be happy.
As an example, Fort defence could be attacks with cha, Ref defence attack with int/dex, Will defence attacked with wis. Spell/encounter & spells/day based off wis/int, etc etc

 

[Scholar & Brutalman]

Taking a look at the Golden Wyvern Adept feat:

Golden Wyvern Adept
Tier: Paragon
Benefit: You can omit a number of squares from the effects of any of your area or close wizard powers. This number can’t exceed your Wisdom modifier.

It seems that they're making Wisdom an important secondary stat for at least some Wizards.

 

[Conjurer]

If it ultimately means making Specialists more interesting and meaningfull than "I'm a wizard with an extra slot, but without Evocation and Necromancy... oh and a +2 on spellcraft", then I'm all for it.

Personally, I think the old specialist schools would make for fine Parangon Paths. After all, when you think of an evil Necromancer or a Devil-binding Conjurer, it's rarely a wet behind the ears rookie but already a formidable spellcaster.

 

[Zaruthustran]

Hmm, basically, if 4e makes wizards a 2 stat (or more) class i'll be happy.
As an example, Fort defence could be attacks with cha, Ref defence attack with int/dex, Will defence attacked with wis. Spell/encounter & spells/day based off wis/int, etc etc

There's your answer right there. A wizard (like any other character) needs to have good defenses. Presumably the defenses of Fort, Ref, Will, and Armor Class will be derived from stats other than all Int. So unless you enjoy being hit, you'll want high stats in the abilities that drive those defenses.

Plus there's skills, hit points, initiative, and so on. Lots of uses for the other stats, there. Also remember that certain racial abilities will be powered from certain scores; I imagine the Dragonborn's breath weapon won't be Int-powered, so if you play a dragonborn wizard and you want to have an effective breath weapon you'll want that stat to be high.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

4e drops save DC's in favor of rolling to hit fort, ref and will defences.
Now i can't be sure, but i damned hope WotC haven't based this roll off int. Wisdom or Dex would mean that in addition to int. Hmm wait i was going to say something about extra spell per day here, but that doesn't really apply.

Well, from what I can tell is most classes are mostly based on one, possibly 2 stats from all the examples given.

All ranged attack rolls won't be based on dex anymore, not all melee attack rolls will be based on strength anymore. It sounds like as any class you could choose just the attacks that come off your primary stat and never NEED another one. That's why almost all of the Paladin's attacks are based on wis but they give bonuses for having a high wisdom in some cases.

I don't know what other stats wizards will use, but it sounds like a good portion of their powers will be using intelligence for attack rolls and damage.

 

[Stogoe]

a transmuter-focused class who can take a piece of a magical beast, and for a short period, 'absorb' that power so he can use it. So if they just killed a troll, he could bottle some troll blood and then "absorb" the regeneration power for an encounter, so that he has a limited form of regeneration.

That is all kinds of hawesome.

 

[Incenjucar]

This might sound silly. But the best way I've heard of handling a summoner (outside of cohorts/companions/planar allies) is:

Describe all of your spells as tied to outsiders.

I've already planned this kind of summoner (as well as the make a pact style ), so it's all good with me.

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On that wizard is a wizard stuff: A fighter, a monk, a ranger, a barbarian, and a paladin are all warriors. So.

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Oh, and on that "take a trait from a foe" thing, also works well if you have a spellcaster who just enhances the natural properties of things. Got a leaf that encourages healing? Enhance it into a potion. Got a nice hot torch fire? Make it white hot. Etc.

 

[Valiantheart]

Well, I won't be buying into 4E for several reasons, so my opinion probably doesn't count too much.

But a general medieval-type fantasy game, where my high level wizard can't summon demons only using the base game book (=PHB in D&D's case), has for me already failed. This (together with somesort of enchanting) is a basic thing that a fantasy RPG must provide right from the begining.

I dont get where this idea keeps coming from. Wizards will still be summoning up demons and elementals. They will just do it with rituals outside of combat.

 

[StarFyre]

i just ask for...

a true wild mage (with random, sometimes bad stuff happening) and a chronomancer, but the latter is so complex to play/adjudicate and is more for experienced DMs, I think I'll have to stick to my own house rule class I use for it...

Sanjay