D&D 4E 4E WotC way of saying your fired?

[DandD]

I know it is fun to be snarky and all, but I think you are confusing "That sounds cool" with "That sounds generic". It is pretty obvious based on the previews so far that WotC is going for a very specific flavor in its "fluff" -- one that has lots to do with Wire Fu Demonic Magical Superheroes. Not that 3.5 didn't do this too, in its latter stages -- but I am suggesting that the 3.5 way of doing things is actually not good. Well, not good for me, at least, and based on the "Thumbs Up/Thumbs Down" poll, about 30% of the people that come to this site.

30% is a big number. I would be willing to bet that the "flavor" issues are bigger than the mechanical ones ofr a lot of people, but only in the negative. That "Thumbs down" number would be a lot smaller, I think, if there wasn't this apparent mandate at WotC to change ever aspect of the game's legacy in the new edition. I mean, D&D has to be popular and well loved for a reason, right? It's lasted 30 years, and the mechanics have chnaged a whole lot more that the fluff in that time. That would lead one to believe that there is something valuable in the milieu and assumed setting elements of the game.

You mean to say that these 103 posters who are rather tumbs down are representative of the community that is not fond of the comming 4th edition D&D-game, as much as these 238 people are representative of those in favor?

I say that these message boards and all polls on it aren't representative at all.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

It's funny - Planescape was at a time when I was moving a little away from D&D, and it really brought home to me how little TSR represented what I wanted. I hated the art. I really, really hated the jargon. I really, really, really hated what they were doing to the planes that (mostly) I'd built up in my head based on early AD&D adventures and Gygax's later Gord books.

Yeah, I guess I could be more clear. I loved the cover art on the boxed sets, but I disliked the interior art. I know there are a bunch of fans of Tony Di's art. I'm not. But Planescape's turn off to me was made up for by most of the other TSR worlds which I grabbed in abundance, so no loss there to me.

 

[Reynard]

You mean to say that these 103 posters who are rather tumbs down are representative of the community that is not fond of the comming 4th edition D&D-game, as much as these 238 people are representative of those in favor?

I say that these message boards and all polls on it aren't representative at all.

I love that old argument. "Message board polls aren't relevent." If that were the case, one would have to wonder why WotC's pre-4E surveys were all web based, why the playstesters are largeky chosen from the ranks of the WotC message boards, why Dragon and Dungeon have gone digital because "online is where people go" for their information, and why 4e previews exists solely as internet biscuits like message boards and blog posts, no?

Seriously, that argument held up just until WotC decided the internet was the defining segment of the gaming population, or at least defining segment of the purchasing population. Now, not so much.

 

[DandD]

But do you really even believe for one second that these message boards are representative at all?

 

[Reynard]

But do you really even believe for one second that these message boards are representative at all?

It doesn't matter. WotC believes it with no just their heart and soul, but their pockets because they are banking on it for an entire edition of the game. of course there will be a print advertising and bookstore rollout prior to launch, mayeb evena TV commercial or two on G4, but the fact is everything will be set up and in place by that point.

So, do i think EnWorld represents the gaming populace in general? probably not? But do I think WotC is making decisions based on the gaming populace in general? Same answer. So, now, polls on playstyle varied sites like ENWorld are as likely to be correct as WotCs own research.

I mean, we aren't Dragonsfoot here. Other than the internet message board element -- an element that WotC has put a whole lot of faith in for 4e -- and a love for D&D -- ditto -- there's no overarching, binding demographic aspect to this community. It's a slice, but I'd guess it is a pretty representative slice, insofar as the "online" gamer (not "online gamer") is concerned.

 

[DandD]

WotC believes it with no just their heart and soul, but their pockets because they are banking on it for an entire edition of the game.

So you can prove this? And of course, the fault of proving lies entirely to you that WoTC is relying entirely on message boards and polls from the various message boards.

 

[hong]

I think Reynard's argument basically boils down to "I don't know what the D&D zeitgeist is, but I know it when I don't see it."

 

[Glyfair]

If that were the case, one would have to wonder why WotC's pre-4E surveys were all web based

Web based surveys are only part of WotC's market research.

why the playstesters are largeky chosen from the ranks of the WotC message boards

Actually, a significant number came from the RPGA. How much of that group is regularly on the internet isn't something I have information on, but I'm sure it's not 100%.

Seriously, that argument held up just until WotC decided the internet was the defining segment of the gaming population, or at least defining segment of the purchasing population. Now, not so much.

While the comment "internet polls aren't representative" is accurate, much more relevant is that "ENWorld's polls aren't representative."

Here we are only part of WotC's market. We tend to be older than other groups (say WotC's boards) and have other things that tend to affect results. Also, the polls are self-selecting. We answer the polls when we see a thread that interests us, and if we feel like answering.

For example, set up a poll that says "Do you have a Mac computer?" and most of those with Macs will drop by and vote. Those who don't are less likely. Those who could care less about computer systems are very unlikely.

Finally, people who write message board polls aren't very likely to make sure the question and answers are neutral. Some examples are obvious (an answer like "I like the Tome of Battle, even though it increases the power of D&D signficantly"), but some are pretty subtle in their tendency to make certain answers more attractive due to wording.

 

[Plane Sailing]

and based on the "Thumbs Up/Thumbs Down" poll, about 30% of the people that come to this site.

I must correct you here. 374 people have voted in the poll when I last looked.

There are 2,500 - 3,000 registered users online every day, drawn from a pool of 54,731 registered users.

That 30% is a tiny proportion of the people who come to the site, let alone the worldwide D&D community.

Nobody would base a decision on a sample size that small.

Cheers

 

[Wormwood]

This a little bit of shame. I liked the artwork of it, at least. I didn't think that Planescape was so disliked by the majority.

Loved the concept, but the setting's baroque, complicated fluff was an effective barrier to entry for my group.