Hmm, I dunno. What the explanation behind retrievers? They're demonic constructs, too, right?
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[4th ed] Clockwork Horrors now DEMONS? And Neogi...
- Thread starter Silverblade The Ench
- Start date
Why, exactly, must demons be both Stupid Evil and Chaotic Stupid?
Couldn't tell you- I don't buy the 4Ed MMs.
In previous editions, some list them as demons, some as constructs:
I wouldn't call them either one of those.
They can be intelligent and cunning, but as the living embodiments of Chaotic Evil, they're going to trend towards impatience, have short tempers, brutal natures and destructive tendencies.
In contrast, designing and constructing a swiss watch is time consuming, intricate and delicate work requiring a steady hand and oodles of patience...and how much more must making a Clockwork Horror require?
Klaus
First Post
Demons want entropy. They want to see the universe undone. Hence, it makes sense that the more cerebral of demons can build machines of ultimate annihilation.
Devils, otoh, want control. They want the souls of mortals, the power to escape Baator and bend the gods to their will. They're more likely to build sin-inducing devices than mass weapons.
Devils, otoh, want control. They want the souls of mortals, the power to escape Baator and bend the gods to their will. They're more likely to build sin-inducing devices than mass weapons.
I don't know. I'd see one as the incarnation of mad science, designing monstrosities based on instinct, his laboratories filled with living creatures being experimented upon. He doesn't have a list of formulas of what works, he just tries new things until something works. He creates out of the Spark of madness - he'll add claws to this human slave, put a demon's brain and an orc's beating heart into this golem, weld together these weapons and spikes until he's created an engine of destruction, mix together toxins and acidic blood and alchemical potions until he stumbles upon an elixir of pure madness...
... and something will work. And some will fail, and melt into steaming piles of goo, or just die or go inert, but other experiments will reveal horrors beyond imagining.
In a way, I can almost see it like how Ork Technology works in Warhammer 40K. It shouldn't work, essentially - but it does, because they believe in it, and the entire race is faintly psychic. "Red ones go fasta'" not because putting red paint on a trukk actually makes it faster, but just because that's how they think it works.
I can see the same thing here. No rational mind would consider the clockwork horrors to work the way they do. The ability to split and divide and yet each copy is the exact same size as the first one? That's shouldn't be possible. It's a small sliver of reflection of the infinite impossibility of the Abyss itself. The key to the Abyss is this - it is a reflection of every possible nightmare, every possible horror. And so here we have a chaos machine of destruction.
Just like there are demons that are distorted versions of men, and beasts, and the land itself, so too must there be demonic reflections of the most nightmarish possibilities of technology and contructs and logic. The clockwork horror - and its creator, the ultimate mad scientist, who feverishly churns out new impossible monstrosities from his bubbling laboratories deep in the Abyss - are perfectly at home in a realm that, somewhere in it, has the worst reflection of absolutely everything.
hamishspence
Adventurer
In MM2 4E, the Retriever is listed as having been originally created by the primordials.
Since some demon princes, like Demogorgon, are corrupted Primordials- maybe he created them before his transformation into a demon?
The primordials seem to be quite at home with constructing life (titans, demons, abominations) as well as "animates" (the retriever, or the primordial colossus).
So the "demon lord of alchemy and artifice" could be one of the most mechanically minded of the primordials, whose corruption didn't change their basic priorities.
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Philosopher
First Post
I don't think demons must be stupid. Far from it, many of them should be portrayed as cunning. But I still can't see them crafting anything. I'd be much more willing to buy it if the demons corrupted clockwork horrors after they were created by someone else. That is in line with demons, and it could involve some forethought and a bit of planning.
AbdulAlhazred
Legend
What could be more horrendous than the thing that waits endlessly and patiently planning and plotting ultimate destruction. Evil to the uttermost core, infinitely more patient than the cunningest spider in its web, relentless, totally cruel, wise with the wisdom of infinite ages, and undying.
Oh yeah, there's plenty of room for this in the concept of demons. The most terrible demons of all don't run around blowing things up, they WAIT, they PLOT, they have a PLAN, and inevitably in the end their terrible plans come to fruition. If it means building a 'race' of mechanical replicating destroyers that takes 1000's of years to perfect and 1000's more to spread and grow into an unstoppable menace, so what? The demon lord creating these things has infinite time and patience, but when its plan matures the destruction and chaos will be just that much infinitely worse.
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