4th ed's adventure layout: best thing it has brought to D&D?

[Khairn]

I truly, truly abhore the "delve" format. I loathed it during 3.5, and I still loathe it now.

I've found it to be a real disconnect when trying to follow any sort of story or suggested plot within a module. It's a testament to Wolfgang Baur's talent that I liked 'Expedition to the Demonweb Pits' as much as I did, in spite of the awkward, annoying presence of the "delve" format.

I really wish they'd dropped it after its first uses in 3.5 and not returned to it.

I couldn't agree with you more. The delve format may be great for RPGA events, 1 shot games and as learning tool for newbie GM's. But as a GM who likes to tweak published adventures to fit in my campaigns, I find the delve format actually makes modules more difficult to use.

 

[Herschel]

How does it make it more difficult? That just doesn't make any sense. You can drop in all or parts of it so much easier because of the layout. Heck, you can use it just to nab encounters if you don't want to really use the story at all.

 

[BryonD]

My main point there is that the delve format has led to a deterioration of story-arc-heavy and (non-player)character-intricate content in modules.

I think you are incorrectly assigning cause and effect. Both of these things are both related effects of the same cause. The cause is a change in the focus of the game itself.

 

[Obryn]

I think you are incorrectly assigning cause and effect. Both of these things are both related effects of the same cause. The cause is a change in the focus of the game itself.

Well, he did write it over a year ago.

-O

 

[Aegeri]

How does it make it more difficult? That just doesn't make any sense. You can drop in all or parts of it so much easier because of the layout. Heck, you can use it just to nab encounters if you don't want to really use the story at all.

Some people find the story and other aspects the hardest part to write.

Other people find that the encounters and mechanical parts are the hardest part to write.

Depending on what kind of person you are, a delve format is either very useful or very useless.

 

[BryonD]

Well, he did write it over a year ago.

-O

heh, didn't even notice.

 

[Khairn]

Some people find the story and other aspects the hardest part to write.

Other people find that the encounters and mechanical parts are the hardest part to write.

Depending on what kind of person you are, a delve format is either very useful or very useless.

Exactly. Like Shemeska and others have already said, I personally find the delve format to be a pain to use, particularly involving storylines and plots. And I actually get angry with the module (or my players) if they they don't follow the predetermined flow of the module.

I definitely see how grabbing and plunking down delve encounters would help some GM's. But creating and managing encounters has never been an issue for me.

YMMV

 

[maddman75]

I don't like published adventures, for any system. I rarely run them, and if I do run a longer one, I'll edit it so much that using one really doesn't save me any time or effort.

However, sometimes you need a game at the drop of a hat. 4e is great for this, with DDI we can have characters in no time flat, and if I don't feel like just pulling encounters off the generator, I can run something from Dungeon. The Delve format is great for this, everything for the encounter is right there and easy to find.

I don't worry about it being good for stories or plot arcs, since in my opinion those never really come out in published adventures anyway.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Delve is good if you want to pluck little contained encounters and plop them right in your own campaign or setting.

Delve is horrible if you want to run a full campaign as is.

The big problem with delve is that making your own encounters is so hilariously easy, that a module that's nothing but a line of encounters is neigh useless. With DM tools even a beginner DM can sling together a standard "delve" in an hour or else.

Delve seems made for - and only for - one shot beer and pretzels games. Which is great if that's what you want! But it's so limiting, and it's all they print.

 

[Jhaelen]

Exactly. Like Shemeska and others have already said, I personally find the delve format to be a pain to use, particularly involving storylines and plots. And I actually get angry with the module (or my players) if they they don't follow the predetermined flow of the module.

I think, it depends on the module. I've recently read 'Expedition to Castle Ravenloft' and 'Expedition to Castle Greyhawk'.

In the former module it was very confusing and breaking up the adventure in a bad way, you had to read both the (very short) room descriptions and the encounter descriptions to figure out what was supposed to go on. The isometric maps didn't help, either.

In the latter it was great, since the encounter info didn't clutter up the room descriptions (which were very detailed and also included info about the surrounding area).

So, imho, using the encounter layout in and of itself isn't good or bad. It all depends on how it's used.