D&D (2024) 5.5/6e - Is it time for Wounds/Vitality?

[Oofta]

First, there was like one interview from a guy that only worked with 5E for a short time that even mentioned a modular system. Can we give the "broken promises" trope a rest?

Second, I don't want a death spiral. Healing works well enough the way it is. It's simple and easy to implement. Want some variety? Go from short rests being 15 minutes to being overnight. Enforce hit die recovery or not. Maximize healing potions and make drinking them a bonus action or make them as rare as hen's teeth and require a free hand and an object interaction to pull on.

There's plenty of options for the groups that want them even without official optional rules.

 

[Stalker0]

I think the big problem over the years has been number inflation. Hit points on both PCs and monsters have been pretty consistently trending upwards over the editions.

I would argue this is untrue, especially for PCs. While 5e wizard/rogue types have a slightly higher base hitdie, when you consider the plethora of con boosting items in 3e, 3e character generally had a lot more hps in my experience. 4e characters start with a lot of hitpoints, but since they don't have con scaling it tends to balance out and then actually become less than 3e/5e. So ultimately HPs peaked in 3e and have come back down in 4e/5e.

 

[Umbran]

I don't personally feel that WP/VP gets D&D to give me more of what I'm going to D&D for, so I'd rather they not go that route.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

First, there was like one interview from a guy that only worked with 5E for a short time that even mentioned a modular system. Can we give the "broken promises" trope a rest?

no we can't it was said WELL HE WAS REPRESENTING the company and no one ever said it was changed.

 

[Cruentus]

I think this "death spiral" malarky is just a screen to say "I don't want things to change" or "I like the system the way it is" or "Wounds are fine and 5e is the best thing since sliced bread."

The only way you end up in a death spiral is if you continue to press on when you get injured, or your ability to do what you do. And you know what you do then, you flee. You leave the fight. Not every fight needs to be to the death. You take a week to recover. Gee, I'm at 2 Exhaustion, let's keep going deeper into the dungeon! Let's go fight the BBG. No, how about you wait and recover first. And if its impossible to flee or have the time to rest (due to the way ticking clocks and "adventure paths" work now), that's a table issue, not a game issue. We play older school rules with much lower hit points, non-balanced encounters, etc. and both monsters and characters flee fights they can't win. If I'm poisoned, I'm not going anywhere. If I'm non combat capable in a fight, we're withdrawing, and the game/table accommodates that.

I like @Steampunkette's suggestion about a critical doing 1 vitality. 5e is simple at its core, it needs more dials to turn, especially around healing. Their gritty healing seems half baked.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

Nope.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Edit Deleted

 

[payn]

I think this "death spiral" malarky is just a screen to say "I don't want things to change" or "I like the system the way it is" or "Wounds are fine and 5e is the best thing since sliced bread."

The death spiral was a common complaint about SW saga edition. It's something to be considered in application.

The only way you end up in a death spiral is if you continue to press on when you get injured, or your ability to do what you do. And you know what you do then, you flee. You leave the fight. Not every fight needs to be to the death. You take a week to recover. Gee, I'm at 2 Exhaustion, let's keep going deeper into the dungeon! Let's go fight the BBG. No, how about you wait and recover first. And if its impossible to flee or have the time to rest (due to the way ticking clocks and "adventure paths" work now), that's a table issue, not a game issue. We play older school rules with much lower hit points, non-balanced encounters, etc. and both monsters and characters flee fights they can't win. If I'm poisoned, I'm not going anywhere. If I'm non combat capable in a fight, we're withdrawing, and the game/table accommodates that.

This malarky sounds like an oberoni excuse to force it into the ruleset.

I like @Steampunkette's suggestion about a critical doing 1 vitality. 5e is simple at its core, it needs more dials to turn, especially around healing. Their gritty healing seems half baked.

I agree with this.

 

[Celebrim]

I would argue this is untrue, especially for PCs. While 5e wizard/rogue types have a slightly higher base hit die, when you consider the plethora of con boosting items in 3e, 3e character generally had a lot more hps in my experience. 4e characters start with a lot of hitpoints, but since they don't have con scaling it tends to balance out and then actually become less than 3e/5e. So ultimately HPs peaked in 3e and have come back down in 4e/5e.

I disagree but it's not worth fighting over since I suspect it's going to come down to "in my experience". Sort of like "damage per round peaked in 1e" is a defensible proposition for a very narrow and specific way of playing 1e, but when you make that proposition it often shocks and angers people who did not in the slightest play that way.

Suffice to say that I believe it's possible to chart a very steady trend of number inflation across the board (PC hp, monster hp) as to how the game is expected to work (as opposed to how it could be made to work), and this gets really clear when you start comparing the hit points of the same monster across editions. The "plethora of CON boosting items" assumption assumes the existence of the Christmas Tree, which was an artifact of a very specific sort of 3e ("optimized") play and was by no means universal and baked into the rules. And even then, in both cases it's going to be an artifact of relatively high level of play to overcome the starting advantages in hit points that 4e and 5e characters will inherently have under the rules from having more and larger HD.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

In General no I am not a fan of would vitality systems. The added overhead of tracking the multiple tracks is not worth the payoff. Also what is the point unless the lingering wounds have some consequences which then leads to the death spiral issue.

I use the Exhaustion table at 0 HP instead of 3 Death Saves. This is essentially my "Wound Points" table at play. Only difference is that all PCs have "six Wound Points", as I don't change the Exhaustion table based on CON scores or whatnot.

And the benefit of course is that a loss of a "wound points" actually reduces the PCs effectiveness, as the Exhaustion table has penalties that take effect at each level.

I am somewhat attracted to this perhaps as an option.