D&D 5E (2024) 5.5 Fighter Best Eince 2E

[ECMO3]

what i wouldn't give for a few lines of text that say something to the effect of:

with these changes your best STR options are probably javelin for range and trident for damage, let's compare them to what look like their closest ranged DEX-equivalents.

Weapon	Damage	Range	Properties	Mastery
Javelin	1d6 Piercing	90/240	N/A	Slow
Shortbow	1d6 Piercing	80/320	Ammo, 2-Handed	Vex
Trident	1d10 Piercing	60/120	N/A, Versatile,	Topple
Longbow	1d8 Piercing	150/600	Ammo, Heavy, 2-handed	Slow
H Crossbow	1d10 Piercing	100/400	Ammo, Heavy, Loading, 2-Handed	Push

That seems fairly balanced to me all things considered, don't you think?

I think the range on the Javelin and Trident are too long.

If we are going to change them, I think they are too long in the current rules. I think the Trident (and hand axe and spear) should be 10/30 and the Javelin and darts should be 20/60. The dagger should not be a thrown weapon at all, as I don't know of any actual daggers that are going to do well when thrown. We might should add a throwing knife as a weapon.

I also think long range on the shortbow and both crossbows should be cut in half (short range is fine) and the longbow is fine as is IMO.

 

[Zardnaar]

I have a level 11 Champion Fighter in my one bud's game. I have Greater Weapon Master, Savage Attack, and the Champion's Heroic Inspiration generation alongside the fact I'm a human as well.

What I'm trying to say is: I can REROLL a lot of attack dice when it comes to hitting something.

It's kinda nutty actually.

Yeah ive seen lucky and piercer feat as well.

Champions good from level 3. Level 10 chefs kiss.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

Wait why? Indomitable is awesome now.

i hate it because it might as well be an auto-success to the point where when you fail despite it, it feels like it's mocking you. i don't want my class features to mock me.

i feel like it'd be better if either it was basically an auto-success, or if it was replaced by slowly getting proficiency in other saving throws.

Honestly, the idea that someone with 10 Str and 20 Dex is an ideal archer bugs me. I know why the concept has been streamlined. I actually prefer a game where you don't need to invest in multiple ability scores to be good at archery (at least, if everyone is going to insist on point-buy).

But it would be nice to have Strength bows or viable thrown weapon builds.*

hot take: if bows have to be either strength or dexterity (and not some combination of both), they should be strength based. proficiency already determines aim, if you don't have the right muscles built up you're gonna have a bad time trying to use a war bow.

it'd probably be best to keep them dex based but give them either a minimum strength or con requirement to not have disadvantage with them, but i think you could totally get away with making bows all strength based and then having finesse throwing weapons, crossbows, and firearms be your ranged dex choices.

I mean, like, I just want to give every melee type PC mobility boosts?

There isn't a great reason why a level 1 PC is as fast as a level 5, 10 or 20 PC.

my idea was to just give martials the ability to use their extra attack to take actions other then attacking, like dashing or using an object or disengaging.

that way a level 11 fighter could disengage from an enemy, dash to an enemy near the wizard, and attack that enemy once in the same turn, for example. or the fighter could move 30 feet and dash 3 times for a total of 120 feet of movement. stuff like that.

seems like the simplest solution to me.

It breaks bounded accuracy, especially at high levels, and by a lot.

I prefer the old version. I think the old version was level appropriate. Part of the issue with the new Indomitable is the Mage Slayer feat (I liked the older version of that better as well), the champion's Heroic Inspiration and the Lucky feat which can all be had pretty easily on a high level fighter without giving up hardly anything.

If the old version was too weak you could implement a different mechanic - advantage on all saves or proficiency in all saves or a bonus of half your level as a reaction or something like that, but +14 or more on a save is just broken in a game that uses bounded accuracy as an underlying mathematical principle.

i honestly don't really care that it breaks bounded accuracy because it's clearly meant to eventually just be an effective auto success. my problem is that it...isn't. so it mocks you.

like i said to chaltab, i do think it'd be better if fighters slowly accumulated saving throws as they leveled up until they eventually became proficient in all saving throws. it'd be less abusable while still getting across that fighters are the kings of combat.

...i just realized i responded to 4 people in one message.

 

[NotAYakk]

i certainly agree with this principle (though our preferred executions may or may not differ), but more martial movement doesn't need to be at odds with better ranged STR options.

So, I want players to be able to have a character that is "I hit things with a sword". Solving this with "how about you throw the sword to not suck" doesn't match that ...

 

[CreamCloud0]

So, I want players to be able to have a character that is "I hit things with a sword". Solving this with "how about you throw the sword to not suck" doesn't match that ...

and you still can have characters who hit things with a sword, but there will likely be situations you may encounter, a flying enemy perhaps, something across a ravine, or when restrained in place, where all the movement in the world won't help you reach that target and the melee STR character has to pick up a ranged weapon, of course throwing your weapon isn't going to be your first option in most situations, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be a viable option.

you want players to have the option of being mobile enough that they can always get into melee
i want players to have the option of a character who can throw their weapon if the need arises (or if they just want to do that)
we don't have to pick between which of these problems gets solved, both solutions can be implemented

 

[Bae'zel]

Odd Note: The Fighter and Barbarian have the worst weapon mastery changing mechanics in the game. All other classes can change all their masteries (usually 2) but the Fighter and barbarian can only change one per long rest. To me this makes no sense at all for the fighter, who is supposed to be the weapon expert and it really hurts play if you are not playing a specific archetype focused on one weapon and want to go with whatever the situation sdictates.

I am playing a low level fighter right now who started out with mastery in Heavy Crossbow, Morning Star and Daggers (and carried those weapons). She found 2 magic weapons (a flail and a staff) and needs to wait 2 days before she has mastery in both of them. To add insult to injury she also found a magic shield, making her crossbow mastery and dagger mastery useless and she wants to get mastery in a Pistol, but that will take a 3rd day.

I had to look this up, because it seems so absurd.

And yep, the Barbarian and Fighter, the best martials all around, can only change a single weapon mastery out of their 3 per long rest, while all of the others (Ranger, Rogue, Paladin) can change them all (well, all 2, anyway).

Definitely houseruling that.

 

[Gladius Legis]

People hating the 2024 Indomitable are just being contrarian for the sake of it. Their complaints just feel so forced.

The 2014 version of it was worthless, let's be real about that. You usually ended up rerolling a save you had little to no chance of succeeding in the first place, and 2014 Indomitable did nothing to help you succeed it the second time around.

 

[Gladius Legis]

It breaks bounded accuracy, especially at high levels, and by a lot.

Plenty of spells and features in 2014 broke bounded accuracy. God forbid the Fighter finally get a feature that does.

Which leads to my next point: there are and have always been things in 5e that are intentionally designed to break bounded accuracy. And there is nothing wrong with that when it's appropriate for a spell or feature to do that, and when those things are in moderation.

 

[Chaltab]

Plenty of spells and features in 2014 broke bounded accuracy. God forbid the Fighter finally get a feature that does.

Which leads to my next point: there are and have always been things in 5e that are intentionally designed to break bounded accuracy. And there is nothing wrong with that when it's appropriate for a spell or feature to do that, and when those things are in moderation.

Its one of the reasons I dislike alternate takes on Pass Without Trace that make it advantage instead of +10. Advantage doesn't really help that much if you have a -2 modifier.

 

[James Gasik]

Plenty of spells and features in 2014 broke bounded accuracy. God forbid the Fighter finally get a feature that does.

Which leads to my next point: there are and have always been things in 5e that are intentionally designed to break bounded accuracy. And there is nothing wrong with that when it's appropriate for a spell or feature to do that, and when those things are in moderation.

Yeah, I mean, what, Fighters at high level adding a large bonus to ad20 roll is bad, but a level 2 Cleric doing it is ok?

Channel Divinity: Guided Strike​

Starting at 2nd level, you can use your Channel Divinity to strike with supernatural accuracy. When you make an attack roll, you can use your Channel Divinity to gain a +10 bonus to the roll. You make this choice after you see the roll, but before the DM says whether the attack hits or misses.