D&D 5E (2014) 5e has everything it needs for Dark Sun

[Maxperson]

I am amused that the Defiler/Psionicists trying to become Dragons have to cast the Dragon Metamorphosis spell, but the Preserver/Psionicists that want to be come Avangions have to cast the Preserver Metamorphosis spell. Consistency people! Consistency!

 

[Steampunkette]

Artificer as a psionic subclass that inherits the Psi Crystal tradition − I love that idea!

https://media.wizards.com/2019/dnd/downloads/UA-Artificer2-2019.pdf

It was in the UA back in 2019. Take a look at their spell list:

3rd comprehend languages, dissonant whispers
5th detect thoughts, locate object
9th hypnotic pattern, tongues
13th locate creature, phantasmal killer
17th legend lore, modify memory

They even get the Artificial Mind they put into an object (Doesn't have to be a crystal) that allows them to telepathically communicate and such.

Refluff a bit and they're good to go.

 

[Yaarel]

I am rereading the Archivist. It is the UA Artificer subclass. It got mixed love/hate survey reviews. (Crawford personally wants it.) The class flavor is something like the modern internet via a modern iphone. The magic is mainly telepathy technology.

It seems like the UA content can rework well to combine with 3e Psi Crystal, and be perfect for the Dark Sun setting.

I feel the Psi Crystal and Archivist combo is a win-win. The Archivist helps the Psi Crystal feel less "New Age-y", and the Psi Crystal helps the Archivist feel more D&D and less modern.

It also solves a problem that I had with Psi Crystals in 3e.

That the flavor of psionics is "mind only!", is super important to me. So where the Psi Crystal feels like a kind of external Wizard material spell component, it is highly problematic.

However, as an aspect of the Artificer class flavor, the whole point is that the Psi Crystal is an external artificial device. And that this particular device manipulates telepathic properties, feels fine.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

We should remember the gladiator as a "variant class", something like the archetypes from Pathfinder. If the warrior class has got a variant, the gladiator, other classes also could enjoy some variant, with an alternate list of class features, for example an elemental sorcerer or the warden as a primal paladin.

Or the seeker

What about the genasi subraces from Athas?

And what the game designers allow a open door for future crossovers or potential spin-offs? For example a defiler awakes her planewalker spark and can visit other places, for example the jungles from Jackandor, causing new troubles. This would allow "exotic elements" added later in Dark Sun, for example the update version of incarnum soulmelds.

The psionic artificier was official in 3.5, and the psyforged.

The shardminds as PC race of living constructs are OP in Dark Sun because they don't need food neither water

 

[Steampunkette]

Athas is a place of Planar Isolation. Becoming a Planeswalker really isn't meant to be an option. The entire thing is meant to be closed off in it's own little bubble of The Hollow. Where no Spelljammer or Planescaper can get.

It's part of what makes it special. And what upsets me a bit about 4e slapping the World Axis in there.

 

[TwoSix]

@TwoSix, how are you doing defiling/preserving magic in your WWN game?

Real basic:
1) All High Magic defiles. (Elemental and Necromancy spells do not, this is specific for my campaign.) Defiling kills plant life and evaporates water in a (10xlevel) ft radius around the caster, it also inflicts (level-1)^2 damage (Physical save half) to everyone in the vicinity. Level 4-5 defiling is intentionally brutal.
2) A caster may make a Magic check (difficulty 6+spell level) to not defile. Failing this check means the spell defiles, OR the caster takes system strain equal to the level of the spell.
3) Preserver's Art: Commit effort for the day as an Instant Action whenever casting a high magic spell. This spell does not defile. (I might tweak this to scene, not sure if it's too punishing.) This art is available to High Mages, Elementalists, and Necromancers.

 

[ChaosOS]

So, I will say that folks expecting a TCOE/XGTE sized subclass supplement for Dark Sun are almost certainly going to be disappointed. Yes, past editions have included a large quantity of class content for Dark Sun... just like they did for every other setting, because the pre-5e TSR/WotC ethos was that they had to publish huge amounts of crunch to make books sell. That won't change with bringing back classic settings. Ravenloft's character creation chapter is a pretty good indicator of where we'll end up

• A few races. Thri-Kreen & Mul will be new, then a Goliath reprint as Half Giants. (Who knows, maybe Half Giants get unique racial traits like how Leonin aren't Tabaxi)
• Two subclasses - I can't see them ever going above 4.
• A number of backgrounds. A variant entertainer for the Minstrels makes a lot of sense, Veiled Alliance member, Gladiator, that kind of stuff.
• A boons system, in this case almost certainly Wild Talents.
• Some expanded general rules - Defiling for sure, maybe some water management details.

This is also why I made the OP - because I just don't see them squeezing in a full class in the Dark Sun book, and I'd much rather have a small collection of subclasses that plug other holes.

 

[Yaarel]

Translating Dark Sun cosmology into 5e.

It seems to me the "Gray", is identical with the 5e Shadowfell.

By contrast, the "Black" can be understood as identical with the 5e Feywild − except this version of Feywild is as bleak as Athas in the Material Plane.

In this way, Dark Sun has zero access to the Aster (namely the Astral Plane including the Wheel).



I find the relationship of Athas to the Ether (namely the Ethereal Plane including the Elemental Planes) to be inconsistent.

I probably prefer Athas to have zero access to the Ether too. But then certain canon need a different explanation.

Maybe for Athas, the Elementals can be part of the Material Plane? For example, some Fire Elementals live in volcanoes, and some Water Elementals live in wellsprings. If Elementals are part of Material Plane, then they can easily be psionic. An Earth Elemental would the animistic mind of some rock that now telekinetically animates itself.



In sum:
• Athas (material)
• Elemental (also material)
• Grey (shadow)
• Black (fey)

And that is the entirety of the cosmology.

 

[Steampunkette]

So, I will say that folks expecting a TCOE/XGTE sized subclass supplement for Dark Sun are almost certainly going to be disappointed. Yes, past editions have included a large quantity of class content for Dark Sun... just like they did for every other setting, because the pre-5e TSR/WotC ethos was that they had to publish huge amounts of crunch to make books sell. That won't change with bringing back classic settings. Ravenloft's character creation chapter is a pretty good indicator of where we'll end up

• A few races. Thri-Kreen & Mul will be new, then a Goliath reprint as Half Giants. (Who knows, maybe Half Giants get unique racial traits like how Leonin aren't Tabaxi)
• Two subclasses - I can't see them ever going above 4.
• A number of backgrounds. A variant entertainer for the Minstrels makes a lot of sense, Veiled Alliance member, Gladiator, that kind of stuff.
• A boons system, in this case almost certainly Wild Talents.
• Some expanded general rules - Defiling for sure, maybe some water management details.

This is also why I made the OP - because I just don't see them squeezing in a full class in the Dark Sun book, and I'd much rather have a small collection of subclasses that plug other holes.

Eberron: Rising from the Last War.

Added the Artificer. Four new Races. And Dragonmarks.

Surely there's enough room in a Dark Sun Sourcebook to put in a Psion, one new race, two subraces, a quick description of race/class reflavoring, and a couple subclasses. And instead of the Group Patrons section they can just do the Defiling/Preserving rules.

There'd be plenty of room in 256 pages.

Heck. Look what I did with 7, and I used 2/5ths of most of the pages for art. Dark Sun 5e Systems Resource Document - The Homebrewery

The KibblesTasty Psion takes up about 15 pages. The Artificer takes up 10. So there's a bit of a difference, there. But, y'know. 1-2 pages for Thri-Kreen, another 2 pages for Subraces. let's be generous and say 8 pages for Race Refluffing and contextualizing to go along with the 1-2 pages of Thri-Kreen. Add in another 10 pages, why not, to recontextualize the classes and add in 2 Subclasses (Elemental Cleric, Archivist Artificer).

That's 38 pages of character-centric stuff. E:RftLW has 61, including the Dragonmarks. While KibblesTasty's 15 already includes Psionic Powers, Disciplines, and Psionic Feats.

Group Patrons is 32 pages. In that we could put a whole "Journey System" with a few pages of Encounter Tables as well as the rules for Defiling and Preserving.

The Khorvaire Gazeteer and in-depth on Sharn is 77 pages. The Tablelands could easily fit inside that. That's 147 pages.

Leaves us with almost 101 pages for a Bestiary, overviews of different Groups, and a "Known History of Athas" that pretty much starts -after- Rajaat gets sealed away with hints to earlier events that don't go into detail and leave hanging threads for players to pull and DMs to grab from older Dark Sun editions.

It'd work just fine.

 

[Yaarel]

So, I will say that folks expecting a TCOE/XGTE sized subclass supplement for Dark Sun are almost certainly going to be disappointed. Yes, past editions have included a large quantity of class content for Dark Sun... just like they did for every other setting, because the pre-5e TSR/WotC ethos was that they had to publish huge amounts of crunch to make books sell. That won't change with bringing back classic settings. Ravenloft's character creation chapter is a pretty good indicator of where we'll end up

• A few races. Thri-Kreen & Mul will be new, then a Goliath reprint as Half Giants. (Who knows, maybe Half Giants get unique racial traits like how Leonin aren't Tabaxi)
• Two subclasses - I can't see them ever going above 4.
• A number of backgrounds. A variant entertainer for the Minstrels makes a lot of sense, Veiled Alliance member, Gladiator, that kind of stuff.
• A boons system, in this case almost certainly Wild Talents.
• Some expanded general rules - Defiling for sure, maybe some water management details.

This is also why I made the OP - because I just don't see them squeezing in a full class in the Dark Sun book, and I'd much rather have a small collection of subclasses that plug other holes.

A setting will include whatever seems helpful for the setting.

Eberron has a very extensive section on races, including many new races, and a separate section for the racial Dragonmarks, plus a section for how every official race can fit into the tweaked Eberron kitchen sink.

Eberron also gives an entire class, the Artificer. After the dust settled on the class, it was later reprinted for Tashas (effectively importing the class from Eberron to the Forgotten Realms).

I expect Dark Sun, to have a minimal section on races, but very extensive content for class options, plus a Psion class. When the dust settles on the Dark Sun Psion, I can see it also reprinting in a future book.