D&D 5E 5E Healing Surges - Do You Use Them?

[Retreater]

There isn't a poll option for "I forgot they printed a DMG?"

 

[Staffan]

1) Each class has 6 healing surges that fully refresh on a long rest (there's little reason to vary this in the way 4E did, and 4E had too many). Definitely do not add CON bonus to this number.

A thing to consider: in 4e, Con had a fairly small effect on your hit points. Your starting hit points were equal to your Constitution score (not bonus) + a fixed number depending on class (10-15, at least for the classes in the PHB), but after that Con didn't affect hit points anymore. Instead, Constitution's primary effect on toughness was its effect on the number of healing surges.

Having Con have a strong effect both on hit points and healing surges would be double-dipping and probably not good. But I could easily see a variant that got rid of Con bonus/level hp and had Con add to healing surges instead.

I'm kind of split on having the number depend on class though. They did in 4e, but 4e classes had more specific roles than 5e classes do. A 4e fighter or paladin is specifically a Defender, intended to force opponents to attack them. So they need more endurance, both in the form of hp and healing surges.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Having Con have a strong effect both on hit points and healing surges would be double-dipping and probably not good. But I could easily see a variant that got rid of Con bonus/level hp and had Con add to healing surges instead.

I think that would be a fundamental math alteration that would be unhelpful, esp. as it would impact monsters, so I'd avoid that. In 4E it just felt like it boosted the number of HSes from "I might hit the limit on a very bad day" to "I will definitely never hit the limit", so I don't think it had much real value either way. I think in several years of 4E I saw someone run out of HSes exactly once, and that was in a truly crazy situation the party could easily have rested earlier in.

So if we're going to emulate 4E we might as well improve upon its flaws, imo. CON in 5E is perhaps OP because of HP are so heavily impacted by it, and impacted in a flat way (+2 CON mod on someone with 1d6 HP is huge increase in HP/level, for example), but I think we just have to work around that. I mean, if there's one stat in D&D that could stand to be deleted though, it's CON - it doesn't impact any skills, isn't a primary attribute for any class, and basically only exists for the purposes of saving throws/concentration checks, and boosting your HP into the sky, both of which could be handled differently and likely with a superior overall outcome, but that's a whole other separate thread which I think we've had before.

Class-wise, It think the much higher HP values on "tank-y" classes already address the issue, because HSes provide a flat 1/4 of your HP. So if you have a Barbarian with 120 HP, they get 30 HP per HS spent, whereas the Sorcerer with 60 HP only gets 15 HP per HS spent. I don't believing giving the Barbarian more is helpful unless you also give him a mechanism that encourages him to spend them, but at that point we're talking about a wider redesign (hence my suggesting it solely for Fighters as part of them being able to use Second Wind more often).

I'd also suggest that for simplicity's sake monsters not be able use HSes in combat and give them 3/day instead of 6/day for the very rare occasions they get out of combat.

 

[CleverNickName]

Hm. I guess Healing Surges are about as popular as I had feared. ~sigh

If you're one of the two people who are still using this variant, I'd like to hear from you. I'm interested to know how it has impacted your game.

 

[braro]

Hm. I guess Healing Surges are about as popular as I had feared. ~sigh

If you're one of the two people who are still using this variant, I'd like to hear from you. I'm interested to know how it has impacted your game.

It generally hasn't impacted it that much for me. My players tend to choose racing the enemy down rather then backing up and healing a lot of times. But if they are in a defensive position, like behind cover, they can rally more. So it tends to keep them a bit more mobile and looking for places to safely hide out - like behind a wall - to force the enemy to move closer to close around. This can get used a lot when there are large fights and reinforcements are coming. They can healing surge to get ready for wave 2.

It's really more of a safety net, or a removal of healing potions (same action slot, so).

It also tends to mean that after combat, they can heal up without the full short rest period. Which is fine by me - we also tend to use the shorter short rest rules (being about 5 minutes).

 

[Staffan]

I mean, if there's one stat in D&D that could stand to be deleted though, it's CON - it doesn't impact any skills, isn't a primary attribute for any class, and basically only exists for the purposes of saving throws/concentration checks, and boosting your HP into the sky, both of which could be handled differently and likely with a superior overall outcome, but that's a whole other separate thread which I think we've had before.

Perhaps. I am kind of fond of Genesys'/Star Wars' stat spread: Brawn, Agility, Intellect, Cunning, Willpower, Presence. Brawn incorporates pretty much anything that has to do with both Strength and Constitution, and Cunning, Willpower, and Presence combined fill in the stuff that's mostly covered by Wis and Cha in D&D. For example, Coerce is Will, Deceit is Cunning, and Charm is Presence.

That, or go the Troubleshooters path of removing ability scores and treating them just like any other skill. But that would probably be a step too far for D&D...

 

[CleverNickName]

I ended up not using them. I thought they might be a nice way to extend the time between short rests on a typical adventure, but my group wasn't interested. (One actually growled at the mere mention.) Ah well. At least they are willing to give the Renown rules a shot, so I'm counting my blessings.

 

[jmartkdr2]

I've used a variation - spend HD as an action or any time you receive healing magic - up to 1 HD per die of healing.

In practice it changes the pace of play, but doesn't really improve it, so we didn't carry it forward. If I really wanted a more tactical 5e experience I might reconsider it, but frankly if I want a more tactical experience I'd rather just play PF2 or 4e.

 

[Vaalingrade]

In 4E it just felt like it boosted the number of HSes from "I might hit the limit on a very bad day" to "I will definitely never hit the limit", so I don't think it had much real value either way. I think in several years of 4E I saw someone run out of HSes exactly once, and that was in a truly crazy situation the party could easily have rested earlier in.

To quote a great film: "Perfect. Then that's the way it shall be."

 

[Ancalagon]

We do not

However, in one game I'm in the DM allows us to drink healing potions as a bonus action so...