Lurks-no-More
First Post
RPGs are dirt cheap as far as hobbies go, really. The real issue is that they tend to require lots of time and commitment, and free time available for playing is the most precious resource a lot of us adult D&D players have.
D&D 5E "5E is of no interest to me" - really? Already?
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Andor
First Post
Huh. I'm starting to wonder how many people actually remember, oh let's say 1998.
D&D was not the only game in town. In fact in my circles it was barely discussed. Gamers were playing FASA games like Shadowrun and Earthdawn. Ars Magica was the (highly regarded but little played) RPG from WotC.
There were lots of game publishers, none of whom had the kind of market dominence TSR had during it's peak.
If you go back to the pre-3e release days on these very forums, you'll find discussion threads about how impossible it was that anyone could reunite the gaming market around a vehicle as old and out of style as D&D. As it turned out, they were wrong.
Now it's possibly a harder task, given that these days the market is divided by D&D itself in a way that the 1e/2e split had not accomplished. But don't be too quick to say the task is impossible. It's been done before, and by Wizards of the Coast.
As for the "5e isn't for me" types. I'm sure some of them are quite sincere in how happy they are playing the games they already own. I do fail to grasp what purpose they see in boasting about that on a forum dedicated to 5e news. But we saw it before 3e as well, possibly even from some of the same posters, but my memory isn't that good.
It did not noticably hinder the success of 3e D&D.
D&D was not the only game in town. In fact in my circles it was barely discussed. Gamers were playing FASA games like Shadowrun and Earthdawn. Ars Magica was the (highly regarded but little played) RPG from WotC.
There were lots of game publishers, none of whom had the kind of market dominence TSR had during it's peak.
If you go back to the pre-3e release days on these very forums, you'll find discussion threads about how impossible it was that anyone could reunite the gaming market around a vehicle as old and out of style as D&D. As it turned out, they were wrong.
Now it's possibly a harder task, given that these days the market is divided by D&D itself in a way that the 1e/2e split had not accomplished. But don't be too quick to say the task is impossible. It's been done before, and by Wizards of the Coast.
As for the "5e isn't for me" types. I'm sure some of them are quite sincere in how happy they are playing the games they already own. I do fail to grasp what purpose they see in boasting about that on a forum dedicated to 5e news. But we saw it before 3e as well, possibly even from some of the same posters, but my memory isn't that good.
It did not noticably hinder the success of 3e D&D.
El Mahdi
Muad'Dib of the Anauroch
Have you been to the movies lately...? I almost had to declare bankruptcy myself after my wife and mine's last date night!
johnsemlak
First Post
I"m reasonably convinced by the current efforts that WotC get that they need to do something different in 5e. They've vaguely admitted D&D isn't going where they want it to go, which is a good thing. They've brought back one of the most famous designers in D&D history--definitely a good thing. So I'll wait and see.
Whether 5e is a success or not is anybody's guess, but I'm certainly going to have a look. Others of course are free to do so or not as they wish...
Whether 5e is a success or not is anybody's guess, but I'm certainly going to have a look. Others of course are free to do so or not as they wish...
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Alan Shutko
Explorer
So far, D&DN has done nothing to incite interest in me. There's not enough information out there, and it's dribbled out all over the place so it would be difficult to form a coherent picture. So for right now, I just don't care.
This may change as it gets closer to release. Right now, I'd say the folks who are interested in D&DN are just as prematurely judging it as those who are disinterested. It boils down to "I want the new shiny" and "I don't want the new shiny!"
But to complain about people talking about it on a web forum devoted to people talking about stuff is kind of crazy. People talk about stuff, they anticipate stuff, they build stuff up in their mind, and the point of this board is to share those thoughts. The reason WotC announced D&DN so early is because they want people talking and debating about it. So folks can choose to leave the New Horizons forum, or can deal with the fact that there will be lots of uninformed conversation in it.
This may change as it gets closer to release. Right now, I'd say the folks who are interested in D&DN are just as prematurely judging it as those who are disinterested. It boils down to "I want the new shiny" and "I don't want the new shiny!"
But to complain about people talking about it on a web forum devoted to people talking about stuff is kind of crazy. People talk about stuff, they anticipate stuff, they build stuff up in their mind, and the point of this board is to share those thoughts. The reason WotC announced D&DN so early is because they want people talking and debating about it. So folks can choose to leave the New Horizons forum, or can deal with the fact that there will be lots of uninformed conversation in it.
Yora
Legend
In my case, they seem to be adressing all the things that annoyed me with 3rd Edition for years and I never wanted to play 4th Edition. No idea what the result will be, but the fact that they see the problems and want to do something about them makes it appear quite likely that it will be the edition by WotC that I'll enjoy most.
I'm very interested in 5E and eagerly awaiting the playtest. Still, I can see where people are having problems. I think Wizards should either start the playtest, or stop talking about D&DN until they're ready to start the playtest. This business of dribbling out vague and confusing information is not building enthusiasm, rather the reverse. And Monte Cook seems intent on replicating the issues with the run-up to 4E, where people felt like the designers were attacking their preferred playstyle. (His latest L&L column was awful in this regard.)
thedungeondelver
Adventurer
Brother, you don't know the half of it. There are...other...forums where posters are rending their clothes and throwing ash on their heads (metaphorically) because Wizards is daring to listen to the mean old Grognards! I mean, in spite of the fact that no, they aren't, they're offering olive branches but it's been intimated that 5e is definitely not AD&D in sheep's clothing. I've seen:
- Notions that people who won't play 4e should be bullied
- Threats of suicide/self-harm over the possibility of the inclusion of old-school elements in 5e
- Giving up D&D for FATE or another system
- Giving up RPGs entirely.
I never quit AD&D or original D&D because 3e came out. Or 4e. I didn't like them and I was pretty vociferous about not liking them but to my recollection I didn't threaten self harm, leaving the hobby or the physical well being of other gamers...and yet there we are. I'm not going to get in to some crazy cross-forum war, but attitudes like that stink. They stink something awful.
- Notions that people who won't play 4e should be bullied
- Threats of suicide/self-harm over the possibility of the inclusion of old-school elements in 5e
- Giving up D&D for FATE or another system
- Giving up RPGs entirely.
I never quit AD&D or original D&D because 3e came out. Or 4e. I didn't like them and I was pretty vociferous about not liking them but to my recollection I didn't threaten self harm, leaving the hobby or the physical well being of other gamers...and yet there we are. I'm not going to get in to some crazy cross-forum war, but attitudes like that stink. They stink something awful.
avin
First Post
New shiny? More like "I want to experiment and judge myself, as I like to play and GM in different systems and editions".
Shiny or not. Give me something old I didn't try yet and I'll be trying.
RoboCheney
First Post
Granted, there's not a lot of concrete information, but there is something--the high-level design goals, dev Q&A, L&L columns, and playtest impressions.
For me, these things don't paint a good picture of 5e. Making a rules-lite version of D&D isn't something that I was aware people were asking for--look at the support for skills and feats (even non-Vancian magic!) from that last poll, those things should be built into the core of the game.
The backwards-looking nature of the design is also frustrating. Monte's Arcana Evolved had a really innovative spell system that allowed you to cast a spell with a higher or lower slot for a different effect. You could even add nifty "spell templates" by using extra slots of the same level (which is MUCH more workable than 3e's metamagic).
Mike's Iron Heroes had a great system where all these warrior classes used tokens to manage their special abilities. I could see how these could plug into 4e's power system--maybe your at-wills given you tokens you use to pay for the equivalent of encounters or dailies. Fights would get more intense with each round, and it would solve the problem of players going nova at the start.
Both these mechanics have a lot of potential and could add a lot to 5e. But instead the developers want to dredge up awkward mechanics that were replaced for a reason. Innovate, and take the game forward!
(And it doesn't help they seem oblivious to the existence of 4e. Play it, it's really quite fun!)
Lastly, 5e means we're not getting any more 4e products. There's a lot of life left in 4e, and I would have like to see it mature, especially on the heels of Essentials. Near the end of 3e saw some really creative products, like the Book of Nine Swords or Magic of Incarnum. What unexpected offerings could 4e have offered?
5e will be the heir of my RPG of choice, and I'd like it to be at least as good as its predecessor. No lasting emotional trauma I'm dealing with, sadly Maybe throwing my 2 cents out there can lead 5e in a better direction, if not it's at least fun to talk about.
EDIT: Oh, and I'll be participating in the playtest, even if my enthusiasm has about bottomed-out, maybe playing it can change my mind.
For me, these things don't paint a good picture of 5e. Making a rules-lite version of D&D isn't something that I was aware people were asking for--look at the support for skills and feats (even non-Vancian magic!) from that last poll, those things should be built into the core of the game.
The backwards-looking nature of the design is also frustrating. Monte's Arcana Evolved had a really innovative spell system that allowed you to cast a spell with a higher or lower slot for a different effect. You could even add nifty "spell templates" by using extra slots of the same level (which is MUCH more workable than 3e's metamagic).
Mike's Iron Heroes had a great system where all these warrior classes used tokens to manage their special abilities. I could see how these could plug into 4e's power system--maybe your at-wills given you tokens you use to pay for the equivalent of encounters or dailies. Fights would get more intense with each round, and it would solve the problem of players going nova at the start.
Both these mechanics have a lot of potential and could add a lot to 5e. But instead the developers want to dredge up awkward mechanics that were replaced for a reason. Innovate, and take the game forward!
(And it doesn't help they seem oblivious to the existence of 4e. Play it, it's really quite fun!)
Lastly, 5e means we're not getting any more 4e products. There's a lot of life left in 4e, and I would have like to see it mature, especially on the heels of Essentials. Near the end of 3e saw some really creative products, like the Book of Nine Swords or Magic of Incarnum. What unexpected offerings could 4e have offered?
5e will be the heir of my RPG of choice, and I'd like it to be at least as good as its predecessor. No lasting emotional trauma I'm dealing with, sadly
Maybe throwing my 2 cents out there can lead 5e in a better direction, if not it's at least fun to talk about.EDIT: Oh, and I'll be participating in the playtest, even if my enthusiasm has about bottomed-out, maybe playing it can change my mind.
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