D&D 5E "5E is of no interest to me" - really? Already?

[DEFCON 1]

I'm very interested in 5E and eagerly awaiting the playtest. Still, I can see where people are having problems. I think Wizards should either start the playtest, or stop talking about D&DN until they're ready to start the playtest. This business of dribbling out vague and confusing information is not building enthusiasm, rather the reverse.

Except that not saying anything about it would still generate just as much unfounded speculation, demands, and complaints.

Saying nothing and saying something would accomplish the same exact thing. So they might as well say some stuff because there are people who are genuinely interested in what's being bandied about, and won't jump to ridiculous conclusions and make "definitive statements" about it (that we all know to be so much hot air because they have over a year and a half to eventually change their minds.)

 

[Mark CMG]

I have no doubt that the sincere, good designers on board and working on 5E are fully capable of making a really good or even great game, though I wonder how good of a roleplaying game it will be. If it turns out to be a great roleplaying game and released under the OGL, I will likely be playing it, running it, and supporting it as a 3PP. If it is only a passable roleplaying game and under the OGL, I will likely play it a few times (without actually making a purchase, or maybe just a PH) and will not likely support it. If it is a good/great roleplaying game but not under the OGL, I will likely play it a bit with or without purchasing a PH and, obviously, not be a 3PP (not even with a restrictive GSL). My reasoning is that there are plenty of other games to support that are OGL released and if I am supporting them I'll also want to primarily be playing them. It won't be anything personal against the designers, the brand, or even WotC as a business, except of course that I won't care for the fact that they didn't learn enough from the GSL debacle to revert back to OGL support. We'll see.

However, there are plenty of reasons why some folks are saying that they have no interest in 5E, even prior to the announcement, and WotC has made it clear that they want to hear from all D&D players, all RPGers, even if what they are going to hear are the reasons someone has no interest in 5E. Acting as if vocalizing that position is somehow wrong is precisely what WotC doesn't want its diehard supporters to quash. It is information they need to know and supporters who try and stymie those who wish to voice such opinions aren't helping WotC, D&D 5E, or the gaming community by creating an atmosphere where such opinons are not valid or easily expressed.

 

[grimslade]

I remain optimistic about 5e. I remain optimistic despite Legends and Lore articles trying their hardest to sow pessimism and doubt. So I think the blush is off the rose for my opinion of Monte Cook's games guru-ness. The articles are painting a picture of a game I don't like and the pathetic and poor phrasing of the 'surveys' read like Internet Guerrilla Marketing for Dummies.
Rule of Three and some of the D&DNext blogs are keeping the flame alive for now, but until the play test is released to the public, the rules are vaporware.

 

[S'mon]

I find RPG is a very cheap hobby, even if I don't like 5e much I can don't buy a 60 dolar videogame to buy the basic books..

As a typical Londoner, D&D is not a particularly cheap hobby for me - it typically means a pub dinner and a couple of pints of beer, that's around £18, and if I don't have a weekly travelcard running then add £5 or so for travel; making it around £23 for a 3-hour session!

 

[Siberys]

At least for me, it's not that I'm not interested; I'm looking forward to the playtest and I've had some great design discussions as a result.

The problem is I'm unimpressed with the tidbits I have seen; a lot of the apparent design decisions run counter to what I want out of a system. I'm expressing that I dislike that, but not preemptively dismissing the system. In the end, the playtest is probably what'll make or break the game for me. The sooner they open that up, the better.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Acting as if vocalizing that position is somehow wrong is precisely what WotC doesn't want its diehard supporters to quash. It is information they need to know and supporters who try and stymie those who wish to voice such opinions aren't helping WotC, D&D 5E, or the gaming community by creating an atmosphere where such opinons are not valid or easily expressed.

The only reason why some of us occasionally roll our eyes at some of the complaints are because the reason that is given does nothing to help WotC with their quest to create the new game.

Many of them basically boil down to "They realized they screwed up with 4E and I'm not going to give them any of my money anymore!"

Well, thanks a lot. That certainly helps guide the design of 5E, doesn't it? That opinion does absolutely nothing because 1) WotC IS producing this game regardless, so tell us you aren't going to buy it for no real reason is not going to affect any change... and 2) Because you have no idea what this game is going to be, what you are saying is an empty threat. WotC cannot take ANY of our statements at face value right now on whether we will or will not buy/play the game... because it will all come down to what the game itself is when it is finally released.

So saying you refuse to buy it is as pointless to them as saying you definitely are going to buy it. They are making the game IN SPITE of those claims. So to make them without going into details about what would or would not have to happen or appear to influence you (something that the designers could actually USE as valued information), you're basically talking for the sake of hearing your own voice, and the rest of us will chime in asking for you to actually say something of substance.

 

[Serendipity]

But to complain about people talking about it on a web forum devoted to people talking about stuff is kind of crazy. People talk about stuff, they anticipate stuff, they build stuff up in their mind, and the point of this board is to share those thoughts.

I just wanted to say that I find there's a vast amount of truth in that. Not just about this particular topic neither.

On topic, I am cautiously interested. From my perspective, it is WotCs job to sell me on their game, not the other way around. I do not have any particular need for a new iteration (there's that word again) of D&D but I am very curious to see what they do with it. Like any other game - if I like what I see, then I'll buy it. If not, I won't.

While I don't share in a generally negative outlook about D&D 5i, I do find that some of the comments directed at those who don't necessarily like what they see coming out of wotc all too familiar. When 4e came out, on these very boards, I recall being told I "lacked vision" simply because I wasn't mindlessly compelled to buy the first three 4e hardcovers on release.

So, I guess my point is really - everybody, it's just a game.

 

[Andor]

However, there are plenty of reasons why some folks are saying that they have no interest in 5E, even prior to the announcement, and WotC has made it clear that they want to hear from all D&D players, all RPGers, even if what they are going to hear are the reasons someone has no interest in 5E. Acting as if vocalizing that position is somehow wrong is precisely what WotC doesn't want its diehard supporters to quash. It is information they need to know and supporters who try and stymie those who wish to voice such opinions aren't helping WotC, D&D 5E, or the gaming community by creating an atmosphere where such opinons are not valid or easily expressed.

This is true of course, if the post actually has useful information in it. Some of the posts have contained stuff along the lines "I don't like it, and you can't make me."

There is no useful design information here. There isn't even any useful marketing information, since you don't know what his system of choice is, and thus which set of grognards not to target.

 

[Bedrockgames]

The only reason why some of us occasionally roll our eyes at some of the complaints are because the reason that is given does nothing to help WotC with their quest to create the new game.

Many of them basically boil down to "They realized they screwed up with 4E and I'm not going to give them any of my money anymore!"

Well, thanks a lot. That certainly helps guide the design of 5E, doesn't it? That opinion does absolutely nothing because 1) WotC IS producing this game regardless, so tell us you aren't going to buy it for no real reason is not going to affect any change... and 2) Because you have no idea what this game is going to be, what you are saying is an empty threat. WotC cannot take ANY of our statements at face value right now on whether we will or will not buy/play the game... because it will all come down to what the game itself is when it is finally released.

So saying you refuse to buy it is as pointless to them as saying you definitely are going to buy it. They are making the game IN SPITE of those claims. So to make them without going into details about what would or would not have to happen or appear to influence you (something that the designers could actually USE as valued information), you're basically talking for the sake of hearing your own voice, and the rest of us will chime in asking for you to actually say something of substance.

Actually it is still useful feedback. These are customers voicing their opinions about a product and the company that produces it. Even if the complaint is "i am taking my money and going home" that it is important and i doubt it will be overlooked this time around. From WOTC's pov what matters is the volume. If half the 4E players say they hate wizards now and wont buy their products that is a serious PR problem. It doesn't matterr if the feedback is constructive. The feedback itself matters because it can be organized and analyzed.

 

[Mark CMG]

The only reason why some of us occasionally roll our eyes at some of the complaints are because the reason that is given does nothing to help WotC with their quest to create the new game.

Many of them basically boil down to "They realized they screwed up with 4E and I'm not going to give them any of my money anymore!"

Well, thanks a lot. That certainly helps guide the design of 5E, doesn't it? That opinion does absolutely nothing because 1) WotC IS producing this game regardless, so tell us you aren't going to buy it for no real reason is not going to affect any change... and 2) Because you have no idea what this game is going to be, what you are saying is an empty threat. WotC cannot take ANY of our statements at face value right now on whether we will or will not buy/play the game... because it will all come down to what the game itself is when it is finally released.

So saying you refuse to buy it is as pointless to them as saying you definitely are going to buy it. They are making the game IN SPITE of those claims. So to make them without going into details about what would or would not have to happen or appear to influence you (something that the designers could actually USE as valued information), you're basically talking for the sake of hearing your own voice, and the rest of us will chime in asking for you to actually say something of substance.

This is true of course, if the post actually has useful information in it. Some of the posts have contained stuff along the lines "I don't like it, and you can't make me."

There is no useful design information here. There isn't even any useful marketing information, since you don't know what his system of choice is, and thus which set of grognards not to target.

I'd have to say that it doesn't matter if there is useful information or not. WotC needs to know how much of the community is simply not interested regardless if there are design reasons or not. They need to know what they are up against, no matter if it is design related or marketing/PR related or completely irrational. Even in what might seem like an irrational statement, such as the one you offer which I had not seen, "I don't like it, and you can't make me." there is the implicit challenge that there is someone out there who would under some circumstances have been a customer. WotC needs to know they exist, what their numbers are, and to get them into the discussion so the reasons for those feelings are known, if WotC is going to have any chance of turning that position around (and they have said they want this edition to appeal to everyone). They can't convince someone who won't even communicate or, worse, are discouraged by diehard fans into keeping silent.