# Planescape5e Planescape- What would you like to see in the upcoming setting?

#### Stormonu

##### Legend
In the Wizards books case 32 seems to be the minimum.
Possibly a limitation for the minimum size of a hardback due to the spine. There's 1E modules as small as 8 and 16 pages. As noted above most printers require a signature of at least 4 (2 sheets of 8½X11, front and back) or 8 pages (known as a "signature") is the smallest block of pages you can do. So we'd see books in pages of 32, 40, 48, 56, 64, 72 or such.

#### Corinnguard

Keys From the Golden Vault is 208 pages, which is not divisible by 32.
He didn't say that it was divisible by 32. He pointed that 32 seems to be the minimum number of pages WoTC will have in any of it's books. I hope that the Planescape book will be as thick as Keys From the Golden Vault. You can't describe the planes and their planar inhabitants in just 32 pages.

#### FriendlyFiend

##### Explorer
It's a trap! To admit understanding means to admit one is an unscrupulous heel looking to swindle and con. ...or so I'm told.

I always wonder how folks from London's East End react to planar cant? Like, 'berk' is a pretty offensive connotation, right?
Very few people know the original derivation of 'berk' - it's seen as very mild (and now rather old-fashioned). IIRC, it was even allowed in Parliament, until some spoilsport alerted the officials to the original meaning.

#### Demetrios1453

##### Hero
He didn't say that it was divisible by 32. He pointed that 32 seems to be the minimum number of pages WoTC will have in any of it's books. I hope that the Planescape book will be as thick as Keys From the Golden Vault. You can't describe the planes and their planar inhabitants in just 32 pages.
He was quoting this post by @TheGlen

"Usually The page count has to be divisible by 8. It's a physical restriction of printers. If the book doesn't come to the right number of pages you have to pad it out with advertisements or filler pages until it does Or cut pages if you're just over"

And that post quoted an earlier post by @MonsterEnvy

"Books for D&D have to come in 32 page increments I am pretty sure."

And that post quoted... well, me. So I've been following the responses rather closely lol...

So the conversation was definitely concerning the minimum the page count is divisible by, not the minimum page count overall.

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#### Kobold Avenger

##### Legend
Very few people know the original derivation of 'berk' - it's seen as very mild (and now rather old-fashioned). IIRC, it was even allowed in Parliament, until some spoilsport alerted the officials to the original meaning.
Berk comes from the rhyming slang of "Berkeley Hunt" which rhymes with a word that can refer to a part of the female anatomy.

#### Corinnguard

Berk comes from the rhyming slang of "Berkeley Hunt" which rhymes with a word that can refer to a part of the female anatomy.
Does anyone remember what Berk referred to in the Planescape setting?

#### Composer99

##### Hero
Does anyone remember what Berk referred to in the Planescape setting?
From Sigil and Beyond: "A fool, especially one who got himself into the mess when he should have known better."

(I still have all my old Planescape stuff.)

#### LuisCarlos17f

##### Legend
Now I am wondering if we could see new "easter eggs" linked with Dark Sun, for example the psurlons.

#### Zaukrie

##### New Publisher
I haven't read the thread.....but, and we'll not get this because it is hard for players to grasp, I'd like the planes to be odd and different than the material plane. Weird physics, odd geometry, things that make them feel different, not just alternate versions of the material. But, I've read many design articles from publishers over the years why that doesn't generally happen (sorry, this has been over years and I can't link, as I don't recall where).....

What I'd like when we don't get that is factions and beliefs mattering, interesting tables/options for planes, etc. Give us a toolbox of rules and tables......there is plenty of fluff (I don't expect this either) on line already.

#### Corinnguard

I haven't read the thread.....but, and we'll not get this because it is hard for players to grasp, I'd like the planes to be odd and different than the material plane. Weird physics, odd geometry, things that make them feel different, not just alternate versions of the material. But, I've read many design articles from publishers over the years why that doesn't generally happen (sorry, this has been over years and I can't link, as I don't recall where).....

What I'd like when we don't get that is factions and beliefs mattering, interesting tables/options for planes, etc. Give us a toolbox of rules and tables......there is plenty of fluff (I don't expect this either) on line already.
If we're lucky, maybe WoTC will update 3e's Manual of the Planes to 5e. I liked how that book mentioned what kind of gravity each plane had (objective vs subjective) and how each plane affected the nature of certain spells (heightening spells with one kind of descriptor while diminishing spells with another kind of descriptor). The latter in 5e will probably involve casting spells with Advantage or Disadvantage.

And while Alignment is not a big thing as it was in previous editions, Alignment did play a big part in the Outer Planes as well. For instance, the third layer of Arcadia was lost to Mechanus when the Harmonium tried to force Chaotic beings into being Lawful in nature. As a result, there was an alignment shift and an entire layer slipped away. Oops!

#### OB1

##### Jedi Master
If we're lucky, maybe WoTC will update 3e's Manual of the Planes to 5e. I liked how that book mentioned what kind of gravity each plane had (objective vs subjective) and how each plane affected the nature of certain spells (heightening spells with one kind of descriptor while diminishing spells with another kind of descriptor). The latter in 5e will probably involve casting spells with Advantage or Disadvantage.

And while Alignment is not a big thing as it was in previous editions, Alignment did play a big part in the Outer Planes as well. For instance, the third layer of Arcadia was lost to Mechanus when the Harmonium tried to force Chaotic beings into being Lawful in nature. As a result, there was an alignment shift and an entire layer slipped away. Oops!
Manual of the Planes is still my go to reference when creating planar adventures. Using it heavily now in my homebrew Sigil campaign.

#### Kobold Avenger

##### Legend
From Sigil and Beyond: "A fool, especially one who got himself into the mess when he should have known better."

(I still have all my old Planescape stuff.)
That definition does not exclude a word that describes a part of the female anatomy. As I know a bunch of people from the UK, Ireland, Australia and New Zealand, who might call such a person a word describing a part of the female anatomy.

#### Atomoctba

##### Explorer
In my games, there was usual to ask to someone that seemed new to the Outer Planes:

"Berk?"
(The person makes a face that does not understand the question or the word)
"Berk!" (conclusion of the players).

#### Corinnguard

In my games, there was usual to ask to someone that seemed new to the Outer Planes:

"Berk?"
(The person makes a face that does not understand the question or the word)
"Berk!" (conclusion of the players).
Yeah, the term was usually used to describe Primes who thought they knew all they needed to know about the planes, only to come up short at the wrong moment.

#### I'm A Banana

##### Potassium-Rich
Here's some of my wishlist. And it is, appropriately, three things.
• Factions. I want my PC to be able to join factions and to have the beliefs of those factions impact my gameplay. I'd be OK with a system like Peity representing my adherence to the faction. I could also imagine a system where I gain Inspiration from adhering to beliefs at a cost, and could spend it on abilities. But these should be race/class/build independent, and more about what I do in play than what I choose at character creation.
• Sigil Focus (with some gate-towns). The tone and vibe of the setting is very much dependent on the pseudo-Victorian tone of Sigil. I want my dirty, scrungly planar metropolis, in all its weird glory. The whole "demons sitting with celestials at a tavern" vibe is key, as is the "weird fantasy" idea of a huge amount of diversity and acceptance of the unusual. Sigil is a place where your sentient tomato PC won't do more than raise a few eyebrows.
• Thoughtful Villains & Unusual Heroism. I think PS was at its best when its villains were not card-carying members of the Evil For the Sake of Evil club. Vecna's return and Orcus's plots were the least interesting parts of the setting in the '90's, IMO. It was much more fun to, say, see the Harmonium as wanting to increase peace and cooperation (and accidentally moving the planes around while they do it), or to find out what the Us thought of survival and identity. The setting was about thought and ideology and philosophy pushed to fantastical extremes. The best villains were relatable, even well-intentioned, but driven by the themes and tones of the setting to extreme exhibitions of their ideas. And by the same token, you could be a heroic version of a nihilist or a champion of the people who fought in favor of entropic destruction. Ideas were building blocks!
For me, one of the most interesting things about PS was how it took the cartoonish idea of alignment and engaged it complexly - your Good is not always actually great, your Evil is not always actively cruel. Angels and devils and demons were characters (which meant they had complex motivations and could change), not simple monsters. Well, they could be simple monsters, 'cuz it was still D&D, but they were at their most Planescape-y when they were nuanced and relatable.

I'm less interested in this being a Manual of the Planes (Planescape is a vibe, not a tour of the Ring), and I don't want a lot of character build elements (races like bariaur and outcaste modron are sensible, but I don't need an Oath of Celestia paladin or whatever). I want the core vibe, updated, with some new ideas sprinkled in.

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#### LuisCarlos17f

##### Legend
And what about to adding any new echo plane together the Feywild and the Shadowfell? I see potential in the mirror plane, and place to recycle the mythology of the backrooms.

#### I'm A Banana

##### Potassium-Rich
And what about to adding any new echo plane together the Feywild and the Shadowfell? I see potential in the mirror plane, and place to recycle the mythology of the backrooms.
For me, I just don't see at as necessary. There's room for all sorts of planes. And, I think it's very in character for Planescape to take the idea that there's really no limit to the kinds of planes that might be out there. I mean, this is a game where Neth exists. Go wild. But the specific list of planes is a lot less important to me than the approach to gameplay that involves looking at the vastness of multiple infinite cosmic eternities and kind of squinting and going "Well. It's all right, I guess, innit?" And that's more about Sigil, Factions, and character design than it is about what planes there really are.

Which is part of why the cosmological changes between 5e and 2e (such as they are) aren't going to bug me much. Sure, it's an Astral Sea, great big ships float through it, you go there to sing shanties, whatever. I'm a little interested in what's going to happen to the Eladrin and the similarities between Arborea and the Feywild, but that's kind of a niche concern. Whatever happens, it can still be Planescape (though I hope I can evoke the sort of meddling angelic elves of 3e somehow, 'cuz I was fond of 'em personally).

#### Ruin Explorer

##### Legend
Really for me two major things I want to see above all else in the new Planescape:

1) The Factions.

I want them back in Sigil, doing stuff, being diverse, having actual beliefs, and being playable and intended to be played. They'd be much better as backgrounds than Feats, too (Piety could also work). What I don't want to see is that they're wishy-washy one-paragraph deals spread about the planes, and not really active in Sigil (which, unfortunately, is technically where 2E left them, thanks to Monte Cook, who claims he meant to fix it but WotC - who had just taken over - decided not to publish the next adventure in the series). And I can't stress enough them having actual beliefs - it's important that some of them be somewhat challenging or annoying to some people - because that's how beliefs and worldviews are. Not all the Factions need to look like heroes in anything but their own minds (and some not even then).

2) Sigil.

I want it to be weird, wacky, colourful, have its dumb slang back (just don't use it if you don't like it!), and to have a lot of detailed locations and organisations and business and just all sort of peculiarities and odd little details. Keep the quasi-Victorian tone - it's actually more in-tune with modern fantasy than it was back then - indeed I think it was influential on both RPGs and fantasy writers. Also I pray that they can avoid making it twee. It doesn't need to "dark" or "menacing" or whatever, but just enough edge to prevent it from being twee would be great. The LoP and her minions can help there, as can the presence of some of the not-very-nice Factions.

#### Ruin Explorer

##### Legend
Planescape for me is weird in a way that is sometimes ironic and whimsical but also in ways that are unsettling, dark, and grimy.* The tone of 5e seems to veer more towards "zany," irreverent and anachronistic (e.g. acquisitions incorporated).
Yeah this is important - the unsettling, dark and grimy side should be there. Not just the "FUN WACKY ADVENTURES LOLZ!". It's not like it needs to be hugely dark - just enough not to be twee or purely "zany".

##### Legend
Child of the 90's here. We can deal with a decade or two of no dark and grimy.

Maybe a century.

Maybe until the sun burns out. That'd be nice.

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