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5e questions regarding Rate of Fire

WolfhillRPG

Explorer
Good day,

I have played AD&D 2e for years and recently "upgraded" to 5e. One of my go to characters has always been a Halfling fighter. Sure when imagine it at first it seems silly, but then when you consider a sling carrying little guy who specializes in that weapon you start to see huge benefits. Fast forward to 5e and a sling seems ultimately pointless. In 2e slings and darts lacked damage but made up for it in volume. I cant seem to find any information regarding ROF (aside from reloading for crossbows, etc) which leads me to think that darts and slings are only handy for players who cant use a bow/crossbow.

Am I just missing something?
 

toucanbuzz

Villager
Darts and slings can be decent since you can (now) add your ability score modifier to the damage and attack rolls.

1. Some classes don't have proficiency in bows. Small creatures have problems using heavy ammunition weapons like longbows.

2. Darts are cheap and as a non-ammunition weapon, retrievable after being thrown.

3. Darts can be thrown one-handed, leaving you options for your off-hand such as a shield or other items.

4. Slings can be used one-handed, albeit if you're reloading you need a free hand.

5. Sling ammo, if your DM allows it, could be rocks you find, making it good for prolonged excursions.
 

iserith

Magic Wordsmith
If the game uses the optional Feats rules, choose the Sharpshooter feat and take the -5 to hit and +10 to damage against monsters with low ACs or when you have advantage.

It will be hilarious when you do 17 damage with a sling in a single attack. Think of all the David and Goliath jokes.
 

WolfhillRPG

Explorer
That's what made the character so interesting in 2e. +1 hit with Halfling throwing trait, Dex bonus to hit, and a ROF of 3/2 with a weapon specialization. An platoon of Halfling slingers suddenly becomes formidable.
 

DM Dave1

Explorer
You can use the sling for as many attacks as you have per round. At first level, that's once. As a second level fighter, you could use Action Surge and attack twice with your sling. When you get Extra Attack, you can use the sling 2 times (and up to 4 times at level 20... or 8(!) times with Action Surge).

Sounds like a fun character concept. Run with it! Don't let the optimizers (including the one that's in all our heads) tell you that your PC needs to use a shortbow!
 

jgsugden

Explorer
One change I informally made for 5E: The type of weapon/description is fluff.

If someone is proficienct with bow and wants to deal bow range and damage, but describe it as a sling.... go for it. I'll even allow minor mechanical changes (such as bludgeon rather than pierce).

I'd rather they'd changed weapon proficiencies from being weapon specific to a point based system. You'd have a proficiency level of simple, basic, martial, expert and master weapons. Each weapon you find would have characteristics (damage type, special abilities, damage die, proficiency level required). The proficiency level would be determined by countinging special abilities (finesse, light, ranged weapons, extended range, versatile, etc... some special abilities might be free, but they'd be 'either/or' abilities where it could only be used one way) and die upgrades from d4 (d6=1, d8=2, d10=3, d12/2d6 = 4). Simple weapons get 1 upgrade, basic 2, martial 3, expert 4, master 5. Heavy / two handed weapons get 1 free upgrade. Everything else is fluff. One special ability that would cost more than 1 level of advancement would be an ability to make one extra attack during any attack action with the weapon.

Fighters would be the weapon masters. Barbarians, rangers and paladins would be experts. Warlocks, bards, clerics, rogues monks would get martial. Sorcerers and druids basic. Wizards simple.
 

Bacon Bits

Explorer
Good day,

I have played AD&D 2e for years and recently "upgraded" to 5e. One of my go to characters has always been a Halfling fighter. Sure when imagine it at first it seems silly, but then when you consider a sling carrying little guy who specializes in that weapon you start to see huge benefits. Fast forward to 5e and a sling seems ultimately pointless. In 2e slings and darts lacked damage but made up for it in volume. I cant seem to find any information regarding ROF (aside from reloading for crossbows, etc) which leads me to think that darts and slings are only handy for players who cant use a bow/crossbow.

Am I just missing something?
Nope, you're not missing anything.

I'm not sure why people are beating around the bush here. There is no incentive for a Halfling Fighter to use anything other than a shortbow, a hand crossbow with Crossbow Expert, or a thrown javelin or handaxe. And Halflings have no particular affinity for thrown weapons or slings.
 

Oofta

Title? I don't need no stinkin' title.
You may find that in 5E there are fewer power-ups for specific niche builds. This was a design decision, and part of the goal of not being required to be a grognard to build effective characters.

There are still plenty of people that like to argue about optimization, but to me it seems like it's not nearly as important as it was in previous editions. Yes there are builds that do 2 points per round after 10th level*, but in real play I just don't see the massive differences I saw in previous editions.

So halflings get some cool things, but sling specialization isn't one of them.

*sometimes you can get quite a bit more damage for certain builds when the stars align and the build can go nova, but generally the difference is not that big round after round
 

DEFCON 1

Hero
If you like the concept of your sling-using Halfling Fighter, don't be afraid of speaking with your DM and asking "Hey, as a halfling I normally could be using a shortbow and hitting for 1d6 + my DEX mod in damage. But as I'd love to recreate the 2E-style halfling that got bonuses to using slings... would it be all right if I refluffed the mechanics of the shortbow to be a 'sling in the hands of a halfling' that would get me 1d6 + DEX bonus damage, rather than the standard sling damage of 1d4?"

Hopefully your DM will realize there's no reason not to let you fluff your 1d6+DEX ranged damage attack into whatever weapon form you want... especially if you even say you'd be willing to stick with the sling's range rather than ask for the shortbow's.
 

rgoodbb

Explorer
This might change your character too much, but If you could somehow gain access to the Magic Stone cantrip through a feat or a Multi-class or a nice DM, then it might feel a bit more powerful but as others have said, go for it anyway. Halfling Slingers totally rock! Forget incentives for a tad more damage.
 
W

WhosDaDungeonMaster

Guest
We house-ruled a feature for Halflings:

Stone Slinger: From a lifetime of games and fun, you are adept at throwing small, light objects quickly and with accuracy. When you make a ranged attack with a small, light object (no more than 1 lb.), you gain a +1 to the attack roll. Items include darts, daggers, stones, and other items at DM's discretion. When you make a ranged attack with these small items, you may use your Bonus action to make one additional ranged attack with the same types of items.

So, even at first level, you could use your bonus action to use your sling to throw stones twice.
 

iserith

Magic Wordsmith
My standard disclaimer, since it's always relevant in my view:

D&D 5e is not an "upgrade" or "patch" to AD&D 2e or any other version of D&D. They are entirely different games that come with different rules and assumptions that demand different approaches for the game to work optimally and to arrive at the intended play experience.

Therefore, I highly recommend you forget what you know about AD&D 2e and try to approach learning D&D 5e with fresh eyes and an open mind. While you may be able to get close to certain concepts that worked in the past, they might miss the mark in a number of ways. Adjusting your expectations is really important in my opinion.
 
W

WhosDaDungeonMaster

Guest
That's a good point, but frankly if that is the case, give the game a different name IMO. ;)
 
W

WhosDaDungeonMaster

Guest
Why? It didn't between OD&D and 1e. Or 2e and 3e. Or 3e and 4e. Why does 5e get the different name?
Because AD&D (1E) was an upgrade from OD&D. It was "Advanced" and offered more in depth material, etc. 2E was a revamp or reboot of 1E, with much of it identical to 1E. It wasn't a paradigm shift from 1E, but expanded, revised, etc., for better or worse.

3E, however, vastly changed things, and IMO could have been called a new game as well. There were no longer separate XP charts, feats were added, and a whole lot of other changes I don't even recall (I only played it for about a year because it was so different from the 1E/2E games I was familiar with). I never played 4E, so I don't know how much of a shift it was from 3E.

My standard disclaimer, since it's always relevant in my view:

D&D 5e is not an "upgrade" or "patch" to AD&D 2e or any other version of D&D. They are entirely different games that come with different rules and assumptions that demand different approaches for the game to work optimally and to arrive at the intended play experience.

Therefore, I highly recommend you forget what you know about AD&D 2e and try to approach learning D&D 5e with fresh eyes and an open mind. While you may be able to get close to certain concepts that worked in the past, they might miss the mark in a number of ways. Adjusting your expectations is really important in my opinion.
5E as others have claimed (see above, a post for which you awarded XP), is supposed to be a whole new experience, so forget what you knew, yadda yadda yadda. That being the case, it would have been fine to call it something else. I've tried to transfer my knowledge of 1E/2E to 5E, and there are SO MANY differences it should be considered a completely different game. Sure, they are both "fantasy" games so there will be similarities, but that's about in IMO.

I'm not going to debate or argue it further, just MPOV since you asked.
 
W

WhosDaDungeonMaster

Guest
Slings - how about stones do 1d4, lead bullets do 1d6? That'd make it equivalent to a shortbow.
Seems reasonable to me. People often underestimate the damage a proper sling shot did historically. There were reasons why armies had companies of slingers and companies of bowmen. Both served their purpose.
 

Ath-kethin

Explorer
Seems reasonable to me. People often underestimate the damage a proper sling shot did historically. There were reasons why armies had companies of slingers and companies of bowmen. Both served their purpose.
People also overestimate the toughness of creatures in 5e. Remember, a Commoner has 4 hp. A good solid hit from a sling will take out an average person with no problem.

Adventurers are tougher than normal folk.
 

CapnZapp

Adventurer
Nope, you're not missing anything.

I'm not sure why people are beating around the bush here. There is no incentive for a Halfling Fighter to use anything other than a shortbow, a hand crossbow with Crossbow Expert, or a thrown javelin or handaxe. And Halflings have no particular affinity for thrown weapons or slings.
I also wonder why people avoid giving a straight answer to a simple question.

A. Is there any rate of fire mechanism in 5E?

Q. No. There is no advantage whatsoever in using a sling in 5E. It is simply inferior.
 

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