5e Sorcerer versus Wizard, which is better?

5ekyu

Adventurer
The DM running our game is letting everyone remake their characters when we get to 10th level, which should be in the next month.

Currently, I am running Warlock 2/Sorcerer 6. I don't know how long this campaign will go, but I love playing higher-level spell casters to play with the higher level spells, so I am going to for sure drop the Warlock levels and either go 10 Sorcerer or 10 Wizard. Sure, I can do more damage overall with the 2 Warlock, but I want access to the higher level spells as soon as possible and I've had my fun abusing the 2 Warlock.

So, in your opinion, which is better for higher-level play, Wizard or Sorcerer?

If you want to get into sub-classes, that is fine.

Sorcerer gets the metamagic feats that 5e stole from the Wizard, so they have that going for them.

Wizard, basically is a sorcerer without metamagic feats, but the ability to have access to a wider variety of spells not only usable at any one time, but just access to a wider list of spells in general.

Sure, you can then get into sub-classes, which should be taken into consideration of course, but what are everyone's thoughts on which is better and why just a straight up cast or multiclass that won't impact when you get higher level spells.

FYI, as far as sub-classes, I am thinking Lore master or School of Divination for WIzard, and Draconic or Shadow for Sorcerer, but I do love fun builds, so make suggestions please. The goal for me is having fun with higher-level spells.
In general, I have been happier with my wizards than sorcerers. Sorcerers keep fighting against their spells known wall and little way to overcome it. (Multiclass is one but it is iffy more do at high levels)

Wizards dont have hurdles they cannot get around, just choices as to which to emphasize.

That said, if your goal is just damage dealer caster, likely sorc is the better blaster.

Not gonna dive into the weeds of sub-classes and mc dips.
 

Seramus

Adventurer
Wizards over Sorcerers for supreme spell selection and tons of ritual spells.
Unless you go Divine Soul, which opens up a giant can of Swiss Army Knife.
 

Zardnaar

Hero
If you're good at powergaming sorcerer.

Wizards are more versatile. Sorcerers are tougher and it can vary by subclass.

Sorcerers also good at social pillar, buffing, and maintaining concentration. They have better saves as well.

5E has a handful of OP spells so if you can pick them it's all good.

Wizards also better at exploration pillar,sorcerers social.

Twinned and quickened are very good.
 

Zardnaar

Hero
Twinned suggestion. No upcast option.

"Hey, your buddy is about to betray you and kill you. You should kill him first."

x2.
Twinned haste,twinned greater invisibility, quickened cantrips

Quickened bless and greenflame blade are also useful.
 

Mort

Community Supporter
For feats I love Spell Sniper. You get a damage-dealing cantrip and double the range of all attack-roll spells and ignore 1/2 and 3/4 cover. The Lucky feat is also a great one. If you choose the Diviner subclass, the Portent ability can be fun for you and infuriating for the DM.
One of these days, I really need to try the halfling diviner with the lucky feat.
 

Ogre Mage

Explorer
If you stay single-classed, the wizard is better due to the much larger number of spells known and larger spell list. You have access to so many wizard exclusive spells -- everything from low level coolness like find familiar (my favorite 1st level wizard spell) to earth-shaking high level magic like simulacrum.

If you are multi-classed, the sorcerer is better due to the interaction with the other charisma classes, mainly paladin and warlock. Multi-classing is a bit tough for a wizard since no other class has Intelligence as a prime stat.

With regard to subclass, while I found the diviner the best subclass from levels 2-10, I thought it lost steam at the higher levels due to many enemies having legendary saves and multiple attacks. I started hoping for only high portent rolls so I could use them to make saving throws. I actually found the abjurer, with its extra HP via arcane ward, inproved counterspelling/dispel magic, advantage on saving throws against spells and resistance against the damage of spells to be best at high level.
 
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Okay, found this useful thread.

Sorcerer spells wizards don't get:
Daylight
Dominate Beast
Earthquake
Enhance Ability
Fire Storm
Insect Plague
Water Walk
Very few, and not even Sorcerer-exclusive since these are all also Druid/Cleric spells.

I've yet to play a Sorcerer in 5e, so my feelings may be wrong, but I've always thought that WotC was too stingy with this class. The number of known spells is definitely too small, and I think it would not have been broken at all to give them full flexibility in turning slots into sorcery points and viceversa at the same rate (instead of the current 'premium cost' which means going back and forth will actually deplete your resources). At least they could have sticked with the bonus known spells of their first UA subclass, instead of removing them.
 

Zardnaar

Hero
No contest, wizard is better. You get way more spells and spell slots.
It's not actually that many as sorcerers canturn points into extra spell slots. Or twin stuff similar effect.

The chokepoint is really spell slots per day and a 10th level wizard gets 5 extra spell levels to play with.

It's not that super exciting.

5E also gas a handful of very powerful spells which the sorcerer also gets.

It's a bit harder to judge as it depends on how many rituals the wizard can find or buy, the default is two known spells/level.

My experience is you won't get a massive number of rituals ymmv of course.

The Sorcerer can be used in a variety of roles that you don't really expect like a melee sorcerer build using haste and quickened green flame blades. And MC builds as well.

They're better at buffing and con saves are very big for spellcasters.
 

Coroc

Explorer
:LOL:
Gnome is the way to go for wizard because of the Intelligence bonus (the Fatbeard in me still thinks gnomes should only be illusionists, but that's my problem). The +2 to Intelligence isn't huge, but over the course of an adventuring career (or even a few sessions) a +1 to hit on spell attacks and a 5% better chance of enemies failing their saves will add up.

Second place would be high elves with a +1 Int and +2 Sex (for AC). The extra cantrip also gives you some flexibility.

For feats I love Spell Sniper. You get a damage-dealing cantrip and double the range of all attack-roll spells and ignore 1/2 and 3/4 cover. The Lucky feat is also a great one. If you choose the Diviner subclass, the Portent ability can be fun for you and infuriating for the DM.
Oh my inner fatbeard still is convinced that gnomes should only be illusionists and dwarves should die if they so much as touch a wizards spellbook (alternatively at least the spellbook should disintegrate when they touch it)

But now I know why so many people play high elves. Who does not want +2 Sex (sic) :LOL:

Best typo ever !
 

DM-Rocco

Explorer
Not sure if sarcasm?
Nope, definitely not sarcasm. I love your break downs and that is how I learned what a beast that 2 Warlock plus Sorcerer can be. So, because you have a lot of insight because you have broken down so many of these classes I value your input.
 

DM-Rocco

Explorer
Yeah, after 9th level in particular, I think wizards start to run away with it, unless you're a dedicated blaster, for the simple reason of spell selection.

5th level spells: Wall of Force. The best spell for any class at 5th level, IMO. And for good measure, Bigby's Hand. For 5th level spells I think the sorcerer's best comeback is maybe a heightened Hold Monster, though if that's what you want, there's always the Enchanter, who can twin it without spending anything, let alone half their daily allotment of one of their most important resources.

With 6th level spells, the Sorcerer maybe has a bit of an edge: the wizard has contingency, which is useful, but the sorcerer can use empowered spell on a chain lightning, or a heightened or twinned disintegrate. But let's be honest, you're probably better off using that slot on a Mass Suggestion, which either one can do, or even just an extra Wall of Force. And if you like disintegrating things (without legendary resistance), you really want to be a diviner who has a low portent die in their pocket.

7th level spells: The wizard gets Forcecage and, if you're that sort of player, Simulacrum. Again, the sorcerer's edge is in blasting: they get Fire Storm, and empowered spell to use with it. I guess they can also twin/heighten plane shift (but again, diviners will often have a low portent die).

8th level spells: The wizard gets Maze, which is great, and Illusory Dragon. The sorcerer gets like four options. I guess their best option is Dominate Monster, again heightened or twinned. But again, Enchanter can twin cheaper, Diviner can (often) heighten better.

9th level: Well, either one is most likely using that slot for Wish. But, the wizard gets Prismatic Wall, True Polymorph, and Foresight! Psychic Scream could benefit from metamagic, but, look, it's an enchantment spell again!

And I haven't even mentioned utility spells. If that's any kind of priority, it's truly no contest.

Starting at 10th, single classed, I think I'd play an enchanter, if I were interested in those single target debuffs. I might take one level of fighter for some self-protection. If I wanted to focus on a broader array of spells with saving throws, then Diviner, obviously. If I wanted to specialize in battlefield control spells that don't target creatures directly, then probably War Magic (initiative and concentration boosts). If the campaign were going to spend significant time at 14th and up, and I wanted to just be able to mess with the entire world, then Illusionist would be the way to go.

If I just wanted to blast things, then I might go sorcerer, although even there, the evocation school's Sculpt Spells feature is way better than Careful spell. You don't get as good a damage boost as the sorcerer gets, but better to actually be able to use your big blasts without killing your friends.
Good insight. I am leaning towards Diviner or Lore master, but I'll give Enchantment and illusion a second look.
 

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