D&D 5E 5e Sorcerer versus Wizard, which is better?

[DM-Rocco]

I see a lot of good points here, but nobody asked about the rest of the party and what the others are playing. Not sure how much this may influence what you should build, but if there are more casters, than that may change what your role in the group. Same thing on style of play. If your group is combat focused over roleplay, that will change the way to look at the 2 classes.

That's a perfectly valid point. The party is not very big and negotiations and role-playing it is more of a hack and slash campaign. I actually substitute damned one step repair for Gen Con cuz I was running an event out there and it had a lot more role-playing elements in the adventure and some of the people got really upset that there wasn't enough combat. That being said currently there is a fighter trickster Rogue a monk a druid and a cleric I know the clear-cutting switching over to some sort of Ranger and pretty sure the jury is going to stay a druid but the other three classes and players I don't know what their thoughts are

 

[DM-Rocco]

I just looked it over:

• INT bonus to initiative (in place of Cha, but still);
• substitute a damage type for another damage type;
• substitute a saving throw for a different saving throw !?! Once per rest, but wow.

And those are just the 2nd level abilities.

Yes, those are some of the reasons why I absolutely love the idea of taking the loremaster but at the diviner is second place close Contender and some people brought up some really good and interesting ideas for The Illusionist and enchanter

 

[gyor]

Your better off going Shadow Magic Sorcerer, it's the most powerful subclass in the game IMHO. The Hound of Ill Omen is awesome, it's a mix of a divination effect, a summoned creature and Heighten Spell on repeat. Shadow Form is one of the most powerful defensive buffs in the game and it has some utility too. It's Teleporting is twice the range of the Way of Shadows Monk. It's gets a qausi version of Devils sight and Darkvision and the Darkness Spell known for free. It's also hard to kill. This is in addition to normal Sorcerer stuff. Still it's the one Sorcerer subclass where you might use more of your Sorcery points on Class features then Spells or Metamagic, it's that good.

 

[Mort]

Yes, those are some of the reasons why I absolutely love the idea of taking the loremaster but at the diviner is second place close Contender and some people brought up some really good and interesting ideas for The Illusionist and enchanter

Enchantment has good abilities starting at 2nd level.

The illusion perks through 10th are ok, but the 14th level ability is just simply amazing. Both for combat and utility outside of combat.

 

[Mort]

Your better off going Shadow Magic Sorcerer, it's the most powerful subclass in the game IMHO. The Hound of Ill Omen is awesome, it's a mix of a divination effect, a summoned creature and Heighten Spell on repeat. Shadow Form is one of the most powerful defensive buffs in the game and it has some utility too. It's Teleporting is twice the range of the Way of Shadows Monk. It's gets a qausi version of Devils sight and Darkvision and the Darkness Spell known for free. It's also hard to kill. This is in addition to normal Sorcerer stuff. Still it's the one Sorcerer subclass where you might use more of your Sorcery points on Class features then Spells or Metamagic, it's that good.

The shadow sorcerer has some nice abilities, particularly for combat - but the subclass doesn't overcome the sorcerer's lack of versatility in any way.

 

[gyor]

The shadow sorcerer has some nice abilities, particularly for combat - but the subclass doesn't overcome the sorcerer's lack of versatility in any way.

I disagree. I'd explain why tomorrow it's getting late tonight and I'm getting up early.

 

[Mistwell]

I disagree. I'd explain why tomorrow it's getting late tonight and I'm getting up early.

It's abilities don't scale well. Strength of the Grave will, eventually, require an impossible saving throw. Darkness can be easily dispelled by any higher level light spell or effect, and blindsight (and harms your own party as well). The hound cannot survive beyond a round beyond the lower levels, and likely won't even give one round disadvantage on saves due to area effects.

I don't think it's a "bad" subclass, but it's not one that scales well.

 

[MoonSong]

I know what I like about the loremaster class but what do you like about it that you think it's no contest?

It's not about what I like, it's about what I loathe. The loremaster is the having your cake and eat it too of the arcane casters. The loremaster takes quite powerful metamagic -a lot of it on par if not outright better than the sorcerer- and plugs it onto the wizard chassis, which is stronger than the sorcerer's. Spells known, sky is the limit. Spell variety, lots of exclusive spells. Spell slots, in abundance. Ritual casting, the second best in the game.

This one subclass erodes completely the sorcerer niche. A lore master is going to be way way better than a same level sorcerer, perhaps even a sorcerer of three or four levels higher. And since you are not picky like me, and have been playing your current sorcerer/warlock as wizard lite, there seems to be nothing unique the sorcerer class can offer to you. The lore master is broken; I don't think most DMs would allow it, but since yours seems to allow it, don't let the chance go away. He or she will hate you for it, but that is a once in a lifetime chance.

 

[gyor]

It's abilities don't scale well. Strength of the Grave will, eventually, require an impossible saving throw. Darkness can be easily dispelled by any higher level light spell or effect, and blindsight (and harms your own party as well). The hound cannot survive beyond a round beyond the lower levels, and likely won't even give one round disadvantage on saves due to area effects.

I don't think it's a "bad" subclass, but it's not one that scales well.

How many enemies have high level light spells? And if they do that they blow a turn and aspell slot on it.

The hound isn't a spell so you can cast a spell on the same turn as you summon the hound, so it's at least good for one turn, every turn after that is gravy.

 

[Wiseblood]

I would go sorcerer. I see people talking about the versatility of wizards but I think that is a smokescreen. Most wizards I have seen rarely swap out spells and if they do It they never swap out more than one or two. Instead, they fill their spellbook with useless trinkets and ribbons like a deranged Pokemon trainer “gotta catch em’ all”.