D&D 5E 5e Surprise and Hiding Rules Interpretation

[Jon Gilliam]

Also, a new FAQ:

• Couldn't the rules mean that surprise is only determined by comparing Stealth versus passive Perception only for those creatures who are hiding, and not considering those who chose not to hide? No. The rules state that if neither side of a combat tries to be stealthy they notice each other, and that implies creatures who are not stealthy are noticed as a threat. The rules also state that the condition under which a creature is surprised is when they do not notice a threat. Note also that if only one person from the party being hidden could give surprise, that would likely cause players to often decide that only the character with the highest Stealth check modifier and therefore the highest chance to succeed would hide. That's counter to how surprise is presented in the rules as a side-based ambush that a band of adventurers is planning as a group.

 

[Jon Gilliam]

And a new definition:

• Definition of "Surprise" : Surprise is the state where a creature momentarily freezes and loses their turn in combat because of being startled by an attack when they were not alert because they didn't perceive there was any possibility of being attacked.

 

[Flamestrike]

Would anyone like to comment on my interpretation of these rules for my campaign?

Your interpretation is wrong (by RAW). It's also unnecessarily wordy, and weird.

How is it possible for you to be surprised relative to some combatants, but not to others?

 

[cmad1977]

A lot of work for a minor “issue”.

 

[Jon Gilliam]

Two more FAQs:

• Can I initiate surprise by deceiving an adjacent opponent into believing I'm actually an ally and concealing my dagger thrust as I attack? No, because you would have to be hidden to initiate surprise, and if you were able to conceal your attack this way for surprise purposes, you would in effect be hiding in plain sight, which is a special ability of 10th level rangers. Per the rules, most creatures stay alert for signs of danger all around, and without any special ability or trait indicating otherwise, any concealment of your thrust during attack is included in your bonuses and modifiers on your to hit roll.
• Can the DM choose to decide surprise using some procedure other than comparing passive Perceptions and Stealth scores? No, not by the rules as written. The DM determines surprise based on the procedure specified in the rules, they don't decide surprise based on their own criteria. What the DM does decide is the circumstances under which creatures can hide, which can influence when initiating surprise is an option.

 

[Jon Gilliam]

Your interpretation is wrong (by RAW). It's also unnecessarily wordy, and weird.

How is it possible for you to be surprised relative to some combatants, but not to others?

You're not surprised by some combatants but not others because surprise is a binary state : you're either surprised for the first round or you aren't. Nothing in that definition of surprise says you're surprised by some creatures and not others.

You are, however, hidden from some creatures and not others at the start of combat, and you would only be able to attack at advantage as per "Unseen Attackers" with opponents whom you are successfully hidden from (Stealth > passive Perception).

 

[Jon Gilliam]

A lot of work for a minor “issue”.

Most of the work has come from players during this process coming up with hypothetical scenarios and asking "But what about this?" Better to work through a consensus on those outside of play sessions than to have a player feel their point of view as ignored when the DM decides something in-play (or worse, although this seldom happens in our group, suspends play for a rules interpretation session).

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

How do you handle hiding in plain sight?

Like secreting a dagger on your person and springing an assassination attempt in an everyday setting.

 

[Jon Gilliam]

How do you handle hiding in plain sight?

Like secreting a dagger on your person and springing an assassination attempt in an everyday setting.

So far, that would be governed by this FAQ we've come up with:

• Can I initiate surprise by deceiving an adjacent opponent into believing I'm actually an ally and concealing my dagger thrust as I attack? No, because you would have to be hidden to initiate surprise, and if you were able to conceal your attack this way for surprise purposes, you would in effect be hiding in plain sight, which is a special ability of 10th level rangers. Per the rules, most creatures stay alert for signs of danger all around, and without any special ability or trait indicating otherwise, any concealment of your thrust during attack is included in your bonuses and modifiers on your to hit roll.

 

[Jon Gilliam]

How do you handle hiding in plain sight?

Like secreting a dagger on your person and springing an assassination attempt in an everyday setting.

One other note - looking at the Assassin archetype for the Rogue, their Assassinate ability says this: "In addition, any hit you score against a creature that is surprised is a critical hit." That implies that assassination doesn't automatically mean you have surprised the creature, only that it gives you an additional thing if that creature is already surprised. And there's nothing in the ability that indicates the assassin needs to be hidden or even Stealthy.