D&D 5E 5E Survivor - Subclasses (Part VI: Fighters)

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Yeah, that bears noting. Battlemaster gets to be a Battlemaster on maybe 4 turns at a time. A Warlord could always feel like a commander of men, pointing at a target and two of his fellows getting a free charge action at them, because he said so.

It was a very physical class (many of their moves could leave them open to counter-attacks, because they were putting themselves on the line very literally), yet it also filled the support role well.

 

[DND_Reborn]

It seems like expectations need to change for a Warlord class to ever appear in 5E. I am sure playing any class in 4E would feel different compared to playing its 5E counter-part!

Basic structure for powers in 4e was make an attack + deal damage + special effect (not all of them, but most). So everything I listed can be a part of their attack action, depending on what attack power they used. Plus, they could've spent their minor action on Inspiring Word to heal someone by shouting at them.

And the last part is what really grinds certain people's 4e-hating gears, despite insisting in other threads that hitpoints aren't physical wounds.

I could see a feature of the Warlord which would (in 5E terms) be something like this:

Inspiring Call. Beginning at Xth level, when you take the attack action and hit a creature with your attack, you can call out an inspiring phrase to allies within 30 feet of you. An ally must be able to hear or see you, and you can choose a number of allies equal to your proficiency bonus. A chosen ally can use its reaction to expend a Hit Die and recover hit points equal to the roll of the Hit Die plus their choice of either their Constitution modifier or your Charisma modifier. You can only use this feature once on your turn.

Is that at all in the right direction???

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Is that at all in the right direction???

Sure, in the sense that it's a support move... It's just that while healing was a thing they did, it wasn't their Thing. They had much more stuff that'd be like 'after you hit an opponent, pull 2 allies next to the opponent and give them advantage against it. Also, the target cannot Disengage, because screw them.'

 

[CleverNickName]

It seems like expectations need to change for a Warlord class to ever appear in 5E. I am sure playing any class in 4E would feel different compared to playing its 5E counter-part!

Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head. If folks want a Warlord that plays the way it did back in 4E, it would require combat to work the way it did in 4E. So of course that's gonna be a ton of work for just one character class, and all attempts to do so are going to miss the mark.

 

[humble minion]

If you were to bastardize a poor man's Warlord from existing 5e bits, you would take the Bard, and replace their spellcasting with Battlemaster maneuvers.

I really wish that 5e didn't tie the bard to being a primary spellcaster so heavily. It really limits the design space you have to work with

I'd have loved to see a spell-less bard with double the Bardic Inspiration uses, and relatively feature-heavy subclasses that allow a broader variety of non-magical charisma-based character concepts. Perhaps some subclasses might have partial spellcasting, there might be warlord implementations that get Extra Attack and better weapon/armour proficiencies, or some which are more skill-based. And there might be a list of additional uses for Bardic Inspiration that would let you customise further, a bit like warlock invocations or artificer infusions do. So you could make a manipulative aristocrat, or a warlord, or a classic jack-of-all-trades that dabbles in magic, or a trader.

It's nuts right now that we have three classes that use Cha as a primary attribute, and ALL of them are spellcasters. The bard should be a people person first, and a spellcaster second.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Sure, in the sense that it's a support move... It's just that while healing was a thing they did, it wasn't their Thing. They had much more stuff that'd be like 'after you hit an opponent, pull 2 allies next to the opponent and give them advantage against it. Also, the target cannot Disengage, because screw them.'

Yeah, I meant that to mirror your description for the support move.

A more "combat" feature might be something like this:

Wolfpack Call. Beginning at Xth level, when you take the attack action and hit a creature with an attack, you can choose an ally within 10 feet of the creature. The ally can use its reaction to move next to the creature. Before the end of the ally's next turn, it gains advantage on the next attack made against the creature. You can only use this feature once on your turn.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I really wish that 5e didn't tie the bard to being a primary spellcaster so heavily. It really limits the design space you have to work with

I'd have loved to see a spell-less bard with double the Bardic Inspiration uses, and relatively feature heavy subclasses that allow a broader variety of non-magical charisma-based character concepts. Perhaps some subclasses might have partial spellcasting, there might be warlord implementations that get Extra Attack and better weapon/armour proficiencies, or some which are more skill-based. And there might be a list of additional uses for Bardic Inspiration that would let you customise further, a bit like warlock invocations or artificer infusions do. So you could make a manipulative aristocrat, or a warlord, or a classic jack-of-all-trades that dabbles in magic, or a trader.

It's nuts right now that we have three classes that use Cha as a primary attribute, and ALL of them are spellcasters. The bard should be a people person first, and a spellcaster second.

Yep. We made Bards half-casters because they are already too good otherwise. Also, we made Sorcerers CON-based casters.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

If folks want a Warlord that plays the way it did back in 4E, it would require combat to work the way it did in 4E. So of course that's gonna be a ton of work for just one character class, and all attempts to do so are going to miss the mark.

I don't think it's difficult to get the same vibe. It's just important to acknowledge that Fighter + Battlemaster isn't in the right ballpark.

You could well create a class whose thing is not getting Extra Attacks, but (mostly) attack-triggered moves that affect their allies. Some of which are at-will, so you get to feel like a commander every turn, just like casters get their cantrips so they can feel like a caster even when they're not expending bigger resources.

And WotC is even okay with using 'when you roll initiative, refresh this resource'... just don't call it an encounter power.

 

[DND_Reborn]

And WotC is even okay with using 'when you roll initiative, refresh this resource'... just don't call it an encounter power.

IIRC though, all of those are capstone or tier 4 features?

Otherwise, I like recharge mechanics. Which if you really have any significant time between encounters, auto-recharges them anyway...

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

IIRC though, all of those are capstone or tier 4 features?

Samurai lv10 feature to fuel their main power is such. And I thought so was a racial feat, but it wasn't the gnome one that I thought it was...