D&D 5E 5e's new gender policy - is it attracting new players?

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no, just like I don't say your character can't be gay... it just isn't something that should come up well we hunt the kobolds....

Okay, I'm still ending up confused. "My character writes letters home to their sweetheart after every adventure." Allowable? Not allowable? Because that doesn't sound like anything sexual to me, but it seems pretty genre-appropriate to heroic fantasy.

I fnd it disturbing that you care at all about what a fictional knight has under his or her armor... in a kids game. (again in a more indepth rp session with adults I could see it) heck why is anything the default...

Who cares what's under the armor? Maybe the character got a Girdle Of Masculinity/Femininity and is all happy about stuff, but "this experience I had is part of who I am" is pretty basic to roleplaying.

And if "this character is male" is a thing that can be appropriate and relevant without being too much information, I don't think "this character is male now, but was female ten years ago" is significantly different.

Try this... imagine the following characters. 1) A knight in shining armor (human paliden w/noble background)
2) A bookish wizard with a flair for blasty spells (elf wizard w/ sage background)
3) A cleric of light who heals and blasts (Half elf cleric w/sage background)
4) A quick archer who likes to call his shots (Human Rogue w/soldier background)
5) A swordmaster who has a strong heart (Human FIghter w/soldier background)

now tell me what gender they are and if straight or gay... I bet you can't... but you will assume they are all straight male until proven different...

I probably wouldn't, at this point, just because I've gotten used to more diverse games. But those are pretty one-dimensional characters. What about orphans? Kids who were adopted but are searching for their birth parents? A paladin who's trying to win the heart of their life-long love? Those all seem like appropriate and non-sexual themes to me.

I have a lot of friends with issues... some very bad, some imagined and everything inbetween... I don't expect them to dump that on the kids, nore do I think they should just openly discuss it... now, if she (or any of my friends) need someone to talk to, or just need to blow off steam, talk to me after I send the kids home...

My observation is: Treating a thing as a thing that shouldn't be openly discussed amplifies the harm from the abuse. It gives the abuser life-long power over the victim, by turning something fundamental about who they are into something that Must Be Kept Quiet. I don't think that's healthy, and I think it does a lot of harm.
 

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WHY! this isn't an indepth RP exerence... its a throw away game with a pair of kids... you seem to want to make a character totally idepth and with pathos and flaws and exerence what it means to be that character... and that's great on my adult games... but I can already tell you could never play a game with my family... not even chess or candy land because you can't just play a basic game it seems...

I dunno how old these kids are. Youngest I've had in D&D games with us is 9, and by 9 she thought it was important to have backstory ideas about characters because that was part of what made the game fun.

Why does your character need a wife or husband or thrall or slave or boyfriend, or girlfriend or harem? Because you want to make a statement about the character that will change how people see the character... well guess what... just play ken or Barbie... it's your frame and nothing more... just smooth between the legs entirely then

Well, yes, the character needs a backstory to be an Actual Person. It's a roleplaying game. I'm fine with "no sexuality", but I'm not sure how I could make sense of a world in which absolutely no one has romantic relationships even off-camera.
 

Okay, I'm still ending up confused. "My character writes letters home to their sweetheart after every adventure." Allowable? Not allowable? Because that doesn't sound like anything sexual to me, but it seems pretty genre-appropriate to heroic fantasy.
well if after the adventure... then it wont ever come up... we only play the adventure...



Who cares what's under the armor? Maybe the character got a Girdle Of Masculinity/Femininity and is all happy about stuff, but "this experience I had is part of who I am" is pretty basic to roleplaying.
I wouldn't put the girdle in the game at all...

And if "this character is male" is a thing that can be appropriate and relevant without being too much information, I don't think "this character is male now, but was female ten years ago" is significantly different.
it's very different. it also adds 0 to hunting orcs/kobolds/dragons....

I probably wouldn't, at this point, just because I've gotten used to more diverse games. But those are pretty one-dimensional characters. What about orphans? Kids who were adopted but are searching for their birth parents? A paladin who's trying to win the heart of their life-long love? Those all seem like appropriate and non-sexual themes to me.
none of that comes up... and those are all characters my 6 year old neice has played... the wizard was named 'nobuts' and her background was 'at wizard school I misspoke and now my butt is gone..."

My observation is: Treating a thing as a thing that shouldn't be openly discussed amplifies the harm from the abuse.
My observation is there is a time and place for everything, and sometimes you hide hard realities from little children...

It gives the abuser life-long power over the victim, by turning something fundamental about who they are into something that Must Be Kept Quiet. I don't think that's healthy, and I think it does a lot of harm.
so you equite "Don't burden a 6 year old with this" to "be kept quiet" you are making this insane... tell the person go to group theropy, or talk to a friend there own age... why should a 6 year old girl be burdend with harsh realities?



I dunno how old these kids are.
6 and 8 and we started at 4 and 6...


Youngest I've had in D&D games with us is 9, and by 9 she thought it was important to have backstory ideas about characters because that was part of what made the game fun.
so this whole time you have argued from 0 exepercen except playing with a signel child older then the odlest of the two in my situation....


Well, yes, the character needs a backstory to be an Actual Person.
not in a kids game they don't one or two lines that between them lable your class race and background will do fine...


It's a roleplaying game. I'm fine with "no sexuality", but I'm not sure how I could make sense of a world in which absolutely no one has romantic relationships even off-camera.

watch me...


The small town of Beendone before is in trouble, you and your friends are passing by when you hear the news
(insert in game dialog that the crops have been stolen... answer a few quastions)

the adventure itself is that a tribe of hobgoblins has taken the crops to there dragon god... you track them then have 3-5 encounters with hobgoblins then BOOM dragon shows up... when you fight dragon and win I say "And you rescued the town and everyone here lived happily... for a while" then follow it up with 'next time we get togather figure out if you want to make new characters..."
 

Okay. See, the last five people in this thread who said "we don't have any sexuality in game at all" clarified "well, obviously people are married when it's relevant to the plot". And I wouldn't think that it would be hugely upsetting for a typical 4-6 year old to be told that some people are married, even if they don't really have a detailed understanding of what that entails. But I guess if you have no continuity, no "between adventures" or "after adventures", and so on, then yeah, you can pretty much get away with ignoring everything.
 

Don't know how relevant it is, but we have one openly gay player in our circle who has played at least one openly gay character (and one female with... Odd sexual proclivities). But I think you're talking about official product.

It may be that WotC is wary of offending people with accidentally offensive portrayals of LGBTQ characters. Paizo, in my opinion, has gone out of their way to go "whole hog" in its catering to the LGBTQ community, but I wonder if WotC is comfortable doing that, and if you don't build up obvious community support by doing that I think you do increase your risk of an unfortunate PR incident.

As an aside, I'm not sure what you mean by "men's rights" being a bad subject for conversation. My son lives with me pretty much 100% of the time, and I pay child support to his mother, and when she broke the law by "double dipping" welfare and child support *I* got to spend a night and day in jail until it got sorted out. I learned a lot about the way our "family" courts work, and I'll say this much: if I were the mother and my ex were the father, we would not be having this conversation because things would NOT have gone down the way they did. And I learned that I'm LUCKY to have had things work out the way they did for my son and I.

Now maybe you think "women's rights" are a taboo conversation topic at the table too, and if that's the case I think I can understand. But if you think that men's rights - especially father's rights - are not an issue to be taken seriously in our society, I think you are seriously wrong.
 

As an aside, I'm not sure what you mean by "men's rights" being a bad subject for conversation.
"Men's rights" has become a buzzword for misogynists, sort of like how "states' rights" (in the U.S.) is sometimes code for institutional racism. It's too bad, because there are people out there like you with legitimate complaints and concerns on the subject, but the reality is that it's a conversational minefield where you have to tread very carefully so as not to accidentally associate yourself with lunatics who think... well, let's not go into it, but very twisted things.

So yeah, it is probably not the most advisable choice of topic for light table talk.
 

And if they follow your last bit of advice, they and you are part of a criminal conspiracy. A misdemeanor one, but a conspirator none the less. No better than a bigot yourself, in encouraging criminality.

I see a lot of demands of endorsement, but very little tolerance from the LGBT crowd.

True tolerance is "I disagree with you, but won't make an issue of it except in the appropriate venues." True tolerance does not demand endorsement - does not demand "It's OK with me if you live your life in a sinful and/or dishonorable matter" from the faithful.

In internet speak, tolerance is "agree to disagree" followed by stopping demands that the other side agree with you.

I'm not seeing tolerance from a lot of people here.

Seriously, dude? You didn't read the lightness of tone in my post?

The fact is, if a GM is being a dink, don't play at his table. Simple enough. The "egg his house" was a joke. I hope it was pretty obvious. Ah well.
 

Only to a point. By the same token, it's also sometimes your job as DM to say "you can't do that".

I agree - to a point. When it comes to real-world issues, no, the GM shouldn't say that... because it's a GAME.

If we're playing a game set in real world Europe, and a player wants to be a black knight templar? Fine. An openly gay nobleman? Sure. A woman knight (and not a "dame", either)? Bring it on. Just ask the player "do we want to make this an issue - or is it just a facet of who your character is?"

Either way, respect it and move on. Some things aren't worth getting in the way and saying "no" to. I'd like to point out that the most historically accurate RPG I won, "Pendragon", even recommends doing this when it comes to female PCs.

Or you could say "No, they're all male; but there's the Cavaliers of Terenia among whose numbers no male has ever resided - let's start there." At which point you (and maybe the player) continue inventing the Cavaliers of Terenia, which didn't exist anywhere until you dreamed them up while uttering that sentence. :)

I can get that approach. But again, when it comes to some pretty large facets of a character - why can't we just say "Well, most are male. But you could be one of the few females in there."

What's the harm in changing things up? Making an exception? Our world is full of weird inconsistencies. D&D is a game, and saying "no" to a player who wants to engage in your game, based off things like ethnicities, gender, and sexual preference, just seems wrong to me.

I mean, I get it if, say, you have an all-drow order and the dwarf PC wants to be a member. Then maybe "no" isn't an answer. But saying "you're a girl, and this club is no girls allowed" is just too close to our own recent history for it to be something I want to see reflected at my table. Ever.

That said, my biggest "you can't do that" moment was when an established player in a previous campaign came to me-as-DM wanting to play a full Vampire as a permanent character in a mid-level adventuring party where said Vampire would be, to say the least, vastly overpowered. Fortunately, I realized that ju-ust might be part of the motive - to passively end up with the baddest badass in the game and then quite likely end up trying to force the party to do its bidding - and that it wouldn't end well. Hell, it wouldn't even start well. So things very quickly got to Banhammer 1, Vampire 0.

Fully agree with this. But that's a game balance/mechanics issue, and nothing to do with gender and engagement in the game.

(as a side note, I had a player want to be an awakened bear recently. I inititally said "no" because it seemed silly, but changed my mind, used half-orc statistics, and went from there. And then, because I didn't want every second NPC reacting to it, decided that a lot of animals had been awakened recently, and that the PC was far from unique. And suddenly, huge doors have opened in my campaign world. Good times).

Lan-"licking my chops at the delicious rivalry possibilities should a Knight of Xerexington and a Cavalier of Terenia ever find themselves in the same party"-efan

Yeah, that'll be fun. Arguments over whether the saddle seat should be left up or down will rage on endlessly!
 

As an aside, I'm not sure what you mean by "men's rights" being a bad subject for conversation.

It's been mentioned already, but basically, "men's rights activists" are kind of jerks. I could go into a whole bunch of details, but I don't want to derail this thread more than it already has. But google some of the stuff that the MRAs go into, and hopefully you'll see how they're a bunch of jerks.

For what it's worth, I know a guy who has gone through a similar problem as you - he was getting divorced and so temporarily moved out of his house to give his soon to be ex a bit of space... and because of that basically came close to losing custody of his kids, lost more than half his income, his entire house (and so on). So absolutely, there's a huge issue going on there - the law courts haven't caught up with the times.

But I wouldn't lump that in with "men's rights", which is really more of an (awful) counterpoint to modern feminism. A good article on the subject can be found here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/anne-theriault-/mens-rights-movement_b_5049999.html
 

I have never, ever, seen a game that did not have sexuality or gender as plot components at some level.
Which tends to imply that you're the one who can't keep sexuality/sexual-identity out, because I certainly have had games where gender was never a plot component.
 

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