D&D 5E (2014) 5e's new gender policy - is it attracting new players?

[GMforPowergamers]

Why? That's not explicit sexuality. It's no more of a gender claim than "Bob is male" or "Mary is female" is. Why would it be okay to claim that a character is a woman, but not that a character is a trans woman? What's the difference that makes one of them okay and one not okay?

because it has nothing to do with the game... if you want to play that go to my Tuesday group and play it... we will all have fun and have interesting discussions, and no one will judge you weather you are trans/gay/or straight... It is a topic we are currently only lightly touching on with the older of the two, and I don't want the game full of jokes to influence either one on a sensitive topic that needs to be explained... especially since if you are a woman, you are a woman I don't belive this whole 'trans women aren't women" BS if you are a woman you are a woman if you are a man you are aman, caityln jenner is she/her/woman... no need to discuse anything about how she was born... unless we talk genetics or reproductive organs...and both are not being talked about in this game...

 

[TwoSix]

wait... so you don't belive I can run a game with 0 sex or gender in it, and that I must have hidden anti XXXXX feelings, but it's wrong for me not to belive someone throwing around claims of rape to win an argument is doing so with an alterier motive... I don't care who you have say what... you are being very rude this intire time and making up an issue we don't have...

then tell them to find better players... and DMs... I have very rarely meet anyone who was a jerk about it (I could count maybe 1 handful) and never a whole group... maybe I'm different since I was playing in highschool with a guy who wanted to bring a guy to prom... maybe my group is supper alien... but I think you are over sensitive...

I'd cut him some slack... [MENTION=61529]seebs[/MENTION] has been pretty stand up in the last couple posts in saying that he probably was over-analyzing your posts. No point in continuing to flare up a thread that's been fairly chill, especially when you don't actually seem to disagree on very much.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Okay, fair enough. I had interpreted "keep it out of the game" as applied to a gay player to mean "can't play a character who is identified as gay or has a gay significant other in-game". But most groups will let someone have a significant other in-game, as long as there's no playing-out-sex-scenes or whatever going on.

on Tuesday night play what ever we are a super open group
on saterdays we are 90% super open but 1 player is a bit of a jerk about somethings so we 'recomend' caution if you are at all squimish...
on an off day/night with Neice and Nephew... just play X the Y fro Z (race/class/background) we will do very little in town, enough to justify a dungeon crawl... then do what us American's do best... pretend sex doesn't exists and that violence has no effect on kids...

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I'd cut him some slack... [MENTION=61529]seebs[/MENTION] has been pretty stand up in the last couple posts in saying that he probably was over-analyzing your posts. No point in continuing to flare up a thread that's been fairly chill, especially when you don't actually seem to disagree on very much.

Okay, fair enough. I had interpreted "keep it out of the game" as applied to a gay player to mean "can't play a character who is identified as gay or has a gay significant other in-game". But most groups will let someone have a significant other in-game, as long as there's no playing-out-sex-scenes or whatever going on.

yea, it's maybe my bad too, like I said at first I stayed to just lurk here because I know my online communication skills aren't the best...

 

[TwoSix]

... then do what us American's do best... pretend sex doesn't exists and that violence has no effect on kids...

Well, we all know there's only one child-appropriate way to give someone a good pounding.

 

[seebs]

wait... so you don't belive I can run a game with 0 sex or gender in it, and that I must have hidden anti XXXXX feelings, but it's wrong for me not to belive someone throwing around claims of rape to win an argument is doing so with an alterier motive... I don't care who you have say what... you are being very rude this intire time and making up an issue we don't have...

I have never, ever, seen a game that did not have sexuality or gender as plot components at some level. Are characters ever male or female? If so, then your game has gender. Are there ever characters, whether PCs or NPCs, who are married, or have kids? Then you have sexual relationships in the game, even if they are tastefully off-camera.

The rape thing was directly relevant to a thing you said. One of the reasons that child sexual abuse can go on for years is that the kids don't know that what's happening isn't normal or okay. You said you thought I probably thought it was okay to talk to kids about sex. Enough that they are basically aware that this is a thing and it is a thing which should not involve them? Absolutely I do!

then tell them to find better players... and DMs... I have very rarely meet anyone who was a jerk about it (I could count maybe 1 handful) and never a whole group... maybe I'm different since I was playing in highschool with a guy who wanted to bring a guy to prom... maybe my group is supper alien... but I think you are over sensitive...

Well, perhaps I am. But consider this: A whole lot of people who are gay or trans report having had these negative experiences. A whole lot of straight cis people report never having noticed these things happening. And people who only figured out that they were gay or trans later in life often report becoming aware of the issue then, and having not noticed it much previously... What if the issue here really is that if it doesn't affect you, it's easy to fail to notice it even when it's there? Because that would explain why people for whom it's not an issue never see it, and other people notice it.

FWIW, never been a problem in the groups I regularly play with, but then, I play with weird people.

 

[seebs]

because it has nothing to do with the game...

Does a character being male or female have anything to do with the game?

If not, do you mandate that all characters be entirely genderless when not doing gendered characters?

I don't see any way that you can have it be appropriate to the game for a character to be female, or male, but not trans-female or trans-male, unless there's a belief that transness is somehow not acceptable for kids to know about, but cis gender identity is perfectly normal. And that's... actually sorta disturbing, I think.

if you want to play that go to my Tuesday group and play it... we will all have fun and have interesting discussions, and no one will judge you weather you are trans/gay/or straight... It is a topic we are currently only lightly touching on with the older of the two, and I don't want the game full of jokes to influence either one on a sensitive topic that needs to be explained... especially since if you are a woman, you are a woman I don't belive this whole 'trans women aren't women" BS if you are a woman you are a woman if you are a man you are aman, caityln jenner is she/her/woman... no need to discuse anything about how she was born... unless we talk genetics or reproductive organs...and both are not being talked about in this game...

Okay, on this I mostly agree with you. Except that there are differences in experiences that people tend to have if they grew up misidentified, and that can be a component that, without being sexual or about sexuality, changes the way a character plays... But no more than being (cis) male or female would.

I mean, yeah, it's good to just say "whatever, I don't care how you got there, you're a woman", but I think it can be rough on people for whom the fact that this was a thing they realized later is important to their experience, and it can make for interesting characterization in ways that I don't think are remotely inappropriate, any more than "this character is a girl" would be.

YMMV.

I do think, though, that I've clearly misinterpreted some of what you say, and I'm sorry about that. I am, admittedly, a little touchy sometimes. I guess the thing I'd ask is that you consider that the population of people who've gotten burned often enough to be touchy on the subject is perhaps evidence that there really is a widespread problem, even if you're not part of it.

One of my friends flinches whenever anyone lifts a hand above about ear level. I find this a little annoying, because I am genuinely unlikely to hit people, but at the same time, I recognize that she didn't get that way to spite me; she got that way because other people suck, and when I'm around her, I try to be careful where I wave my hands around, because she doesn't need more stuff that even looks like someone is about to get violent.

 

[seebs]

That's probably the part we're interpreting differently. I don't see "be gay" as something he can "do" in game. Basically, he's saying any of the activities that would identify a character as "gay" (or "straight", for that matter) aren't something to be focused on in during play with kids. That's a standard I probably wouldn't hold to in my own games (by the time my boys are old enough to play "real D&D", they'll be old enough to understand sex and sexuality), but I tend to afford broad latitude to people who want to shield their kids, even if it's not a stand I would take myself.

I would have assumed that most games would allow a PC to have an off-camera significant other, or something like that. Which is enough to "be gay", without being at all "sexual content in-game".

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Does a character being male or female have anything to do with the game?

not really, but it is the most basic version of what I would let in for info...

If not, do you mandate that all characters be entirely genderless when not doing gendered characters?

no, just like I don't say your character can't be gay... it just isn't something that should come up well we hunt the kobolds....

I don't see any way that you can have it be appropriate to the game for a character to be female, or male, but not trans-female or trans-male, unless there's a belief that transness is somehow not acceptable for kids to know about, but cis gender identity is perfectly normal. And that's... actually sorta disturbing, I think.

I fnd it disturbing that you care at all about what a fictional knight has under his or her armor... in a kids game. (again in a more indepth rp session with adults I could see it) heck why is anything the default...

Try this... imagine the following characters. 1) A knight in shining armor (human paliden w/noble background)
2) A bookish wizard with a flair for blasty spells (elf wizard w/ sage background)
3) A cleric of light who heals and blasts (Half elf cleric w/sage background)
4) A quick archer who likes to call his shots (Human Rogue w/soldier background)
5) A swordmaster who has a strong heart (Human FIghter w/soldier background)

now tell me what gender they are and if straight or gay... I bet you can't... but you will assume they are all straight male until proven different...

Okay, on this I mostly agree with you. Except that there are differences in experiences that people tend to have if they grew up misidentified,

and those experences are not at all needed in a childrens game... I expect such things to not come up with D&D with the kids, or Mario Wii with the kids, or Memory with the kids...

and that can be a component that, without being sexual or about sexuality, changes the way a character plays... But no more than being (cis) male or female would.

ok, then don't play male or female... play ken doll or Barbie doll...

I mean, yeah, it's good to just say "whatever, I don't care how you got there, you're a woman", but I think it can be rough on people for whom the fact that this was a thing they realized later is important to their experience, and it can make for interesting characterization in ways that I don't think are remotely inappropriate, any more than "this character is a girl" would be.

none of that matters when you play with the kids and hunt down some evil orcs, or gnolls...

One of my friends flinches whenever anyone lifts a hand above about ear level. I find this a little annoying, because I am genuinely unlikely to hit people, but at the same time, I recognize that she didn't get that way to spite me; she got that way because other people suck, and when I'm around her, I try to be careful where I wave my hands around, because she doesn't need more stuff that even looks like someone is about to get violent.

I have a lot of friends with issues... some very bad, some imagined and everything inbetween... I don't expect them to dump that on the kids, nore do I think they should just openly discuss it... now, if she (or any of my friends) need someone to talk to, or just need to blow off steam, talk to me after I send the kids home...

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I would have assumed that most games would allow a PC to have an off-camera significant other, or something like that. Which is enough to "be gay", without being at all "sexual content in-game".

WHY! this isn't an indepth RP exerence... its a throw away game with a pair of kids... you seem to want to make a character totally idepth and with pathos and flaws and exerence what it means to be that character... and that's great on my adult games... but I can already tell you could never play a game with my family... not even chess or candy land because you can't just play a basic game it seems...

Why does your character need a wife or husband or thrall or slave or boyfriend, or girlfriend or harem? Because you want to make a statement about the character that will change how people see the character... well guess what... just play ken or Barbie... it's your frame and nothing more... just smooth between the legs entirely then