D&D 5E 5e's new gender policy - is it attracting new players?

[IlluminatedSeraph]

@IlluminatedSeraph If you are ignoring Sisko, maybe. Or would you classify him as a chaste widow?

DS9 SPOILER ALERT

Kasidy Yates, who Sisko meets in Season Three, is a woman with whom he shares a highly romantic relationship that eventually ends in their marriage and her pregnancy in Season Seven. So I'd hardly describe him as chaste for the run of the show, and that doesn't even count the various women on the show who take an interest in him. Now, he does have a more restrained sexual life than Kirk or Riker (or even Picard, who gets around), but he's hardly a monk.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

I'm tempted to make a crack about the respective faithfulness of Penelope and Janeway's husband, but that's probably unkind. The fact that the one female captain just happens to embody a classic trope that keeps her chaste while the men get a diverse range of tropes that don't require them to is just a bit suspect, though, don't you think?

Um, no, because the sample size is one.

 

[hawkeyefan]

DS9 SPOILER ALERT

Kasidy Yates, who Sisko meets in Season Three, is a woman with whom he shares a highly romantic relationship that eventually ends in their marriage and her pregnancy in Season Seven. So I'd hardly describe him as chaste for the run of the show, and that doesn't even count the various women on the show who take an interest in him. Now, he does have a more restrained sexual life than Kirk or Riker (or even Picard, who gets around), but he's hardly a monk.

True. His story progressed beyond the status quo as I described him. My bad, I was only thinking of him at the start of the series.

I don't think the gender of any of the captains was ever much of a component, although I am far from a Trekkie, and I'd be willing to bet that it was a component for Janeway the most...meaning I am guessing it came up more often for her, but was not a major component in the sense that it wasn't a "I can do what they can do" story. Not that I recall, anyway.

How characters behave can certainly be dictated by their gender or their choice of sexual expression. But I don't think there is any emotion or outlook that is unique to a specific gender or ethnicity or orientation. I think these things are much more universal than we tend to think of them. And I think that's why for every trope we bring up, we can come up with a variety of characters who fit it.

 

[Shasarak]

Um, no, because the sample size is one.

That is surely enough for generating sweeping generalisations?

 

[Sunseeker]

DS9 SPOILER ALERT

Kasidy Yates, who Sisko meets in Season Three, is a woman with whom he shares a highly romantic relationship that eventually ends in their marriage and her pregnancy in Season Seven. So I'd hardly describe him as chaste for the run of the show, and that doesn't even count the various women on the show who take an interest in him. Now, he does have a more restrained sexual life than Kirk or Riker (or even Picard, who gets around), but he's hardly a monk.

True, but after Janeway found out her husband left her, she also opened herself up to romance, she didn't find anyone, but she had a couple flings.

Also, completely forgot about Kasidy, talk about a forgetable character, her role was basically to have the god-baby's...baby.

 

[Hussar]

That's not what I said. Even granting that everything you say is true, those are simply different "things" than the "things" I was talking about, and this only confirms what I said about the term "things" being uselessly vague.

Now, is what you say true? @GMforPowergamers has already touched on some of the more glaring oversights in your claims. And in general, what differences there are can clearly be attributed to sexist writing (especially so with 1960s-era Star Trek). That's gendering being imposed on the characters from outside; it's not what I'm asking about. I'm asking whether such people would actually, in real life (or given a perfect writer, if the idea of thinking about starship captains "in real life" is a problem), make different decisions in these crisis situations because of their gender.

This claim from fans has always really bugged me, because I read their relationship as very much surrogate mother-daughter. Xena and Gabrielle they are not. Now, the struggle between Janeway and the Borg Queen over Seven does have the overtones of a custody battle...

But now we're talking about two different things. You're talking from the character's point of view. Does gender play a role in their decision making process? That's not my point.

My point is in how these characters are presented to the audience. All the male characters have multiple romantic encounters throughout their respective series. The one female character gets to occasionally flirt with the first officer and play mommy to the alien girl.

Could you see Picard treating Seven of Nine in the same way Janeway does? Kirk? The writers would not even try. Compare Picard and Data to Janeway and Seven. Totally different.

Gender plays a huge role in how the characters get written and thus presented to the audience. Lara Croft's male sidekick is an ex-marine mercenary that kicks ass and saves her more than once. Indiana Jones' love interest is a mostly helpless damsel in distress.

 

[Hussar]

"Luke I am your mother" would be a pretty big change no?

Teddy the Vampire Slayer would completely rewrite that entire show.

Male leads you get Oz. Female leads and you get Orange is the New Black.

Yeah, I'd say gender matters.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

But now we're talking about two different things. You're talking from the character's point of view. Does gender play a role in their decision making process? That's not my point.

It is mine, though. @seebs said, "In general, if male/female doesn't have any impact at all on things, I can't maintain enough suspension of disbelief to enjoy the game." I said, " 'Things' is really vague." And here we are.

Compare Picard and Data to Janeway and Seven. Totally different.

Of course. They're different characters in different circumstances. If you compare Picard and Data to Kirk and Spock, they're totally different too.

Lara Croft's male sidekick is an ex-marine mercenary that kicks ass and saves her more than once. Indiana Jones' love interest is a mostly helpless damsel in distress.

That's not exactly how I'd describe Marion Ravenwood. And anyway, if this is the distinction you want to make, it probably doesn't do your case much good to dwell on the subject of major Harrison Ford character love interests. *aside glance to Star Wars*

Look, if your thesis is that gender often alters how writers write characters, I can hardly dispute that. But you're really not picking the best hilltops to stand on here.

 

[Hussar]

It is mine, though. @seebs said, "In general, if male/female doesn't have any impact at all on things, I can't maintain enough suspension of disbelief to enjoy the game." I said, " 'Things' is really vague." And here we are.

Of course. They're different characters in different circumstances. If you compare Picard and Data to Kirk and Spock, they're totally different too.

Really? Picard and Data are completely different? Other than you don't have the friendship angle, I'd say they are pretty close actually. Data and Spock are the super smart characters who are somewhat socially awkward. Uber geeks played by actors who aren't exactly specimens of masculinity. Compared to Seven of Nine, a super hot actress who runs around in a skin tight cat suit. I'm thinking there just might be some larger differences between how Data and Spock are presented and Seven. Heck, at least as far as I can remember, neither Spock nor Data were raped.

That's not exactly how I'd describe Marion Ravenwood. And anyway, if this is the distinction you want to make, it probably doesn't do your case much good to dwell on the subject of major Harrison Ford character love interests. *aside glance to Star Wars*

Look, if your thesis is that gender often alters how writers write characters, I can hardly dispute that. But you're really not picking the best hilltops to stand on here.

Marion's not a damsel in distress? Really? She's captured multiple times, only to be rescued by Indie. Does she actually do anything for the entire movie, other than be "the girlfriend". I'll admit it's been a while since I saw the movie, but, as far as I can remember, about the only pro-active thing she does is accidentally shred a nazi with an airplane. Of course, she then immediately needs to be rescued by Indiana.

At least Leia does stuff in the movie. She leads the troops from the front. Shoots guards. Leads the ewoks. I'd say that's actually a pretty decently presented female character.

But, yes, my thesis, if you want to call it that, is that gender alters how writers write characters, and it greatly affects how those characters are perceived and received.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

"Luke I am your mother" would be a pretty big change no?

big change would be a mother of twins didn't give up the will to live after giving birth... and a daman droid said that...

Sorry, but no not really. Arc I assume is the same Mommy skywalker was an awesome knight then fell to the darkside and now is the most awesome villain. In fact the very idea of luke throwing his light saber away and crying for his mommy to save him doesn't seem to change much at all.

Teddy the Vampire Slayer would completely rewrite that entire show.

not as familiar (I haven't seen the sunny dale adventures since I was in highschool) so I don't remember. I guess one of the big changes would be that he would stand well peeing, and have the red head girl who's name I can't remember like him instead of Zander...

Male leads you get Oz. Female leads and you get Orange is the New Black.

Ok even harder, I literally only know 'prison drama' about both. so I can't say.

Yeah, I'd say gender matters.

Now I really want to pitch shows from the past just gender swaped....

three widowers move in together, one a teacher, one a bit of a playboy, and the other a complete moron from a farm... they bond over there lives and lost wives...until the father of the teacher moves in too, he had a stroke and now says historically off color things...

Female cop in LA who pretends to be dizty and forgetfull and always jokes about her husband we never meet, she tricks up criminals with her act and gets them to prove themselves guilty.

Single father who is really smart gets caught up in the life of an attractive female spy, now they are a team in-between him getting his kids to soccer practice.

Aswome super spy dude was recruited to a seceret government agency, because he fit a pattern, but when the love of his life is killed he finds out he is really working for a terrorist group not the government, now he has become a dangerus double agent trying to take the terrorist down, and the only other agent he can trust... is his mom.

SO these three brothers find out they have magic powers, and use them to fight crime and supernatural threats, there partner in this is an angel sent to protect them, and one of the brothers fall in love with her, while one of the other brothers falls for the demon chick who may or may not be a villain based on season.

This guy became a writer late in life. He specializes in murder mysteries, and everywhere he goes there are crimes. SOmetimes the police seek him out, other times he is thrust into it because of old friends getting in the way...

This Hispanic girl lives on the east coast, and gets into some trouble with gangs. Her single mother send her to live with her brother, who married and big time judge and is rich on the west coast. She's a little spit fire and brings an urban edge to the very white washed family. There is a cusin about the same age who is a preppy, an older cusin (male) who is a bit of an air head who plans to be a modle, and a younger cusin (male)... add in the scrappy Hispanic maid and you got yourself a series...

A police officer and her stay at home husband are raiseing 3 kids, and the police officers mother lives with them, and the husbands brother. The next door neighbor is an annoying geek/nerd girl who has a crush on the WAY out of her league son...

heck lets really mess up some roles here

Two women meet and fall in love, both have lost husbands recently (year or so) the big issue is one has 2 sons and a daughter, the other has 2 daughters and a son. Some how though they know they can all be come a family...
Edit: I forgot to throw in the gay butler/maid who falls for the guy that works at the grocery store...

Damn it I need to get ahold of people at networks... some of these are gold...