D&D 5E 5th edition Monster Manual: I think the really nice art detracts from the mediocre functionality of the book.

[The Mirrorball Man]

That's my point though...you can't put tradition aside, not on this one.

You're probably right, but then one can't be all judgmental when people get confused.

 

[wedgeski]

You're probably right, but then one can't be all judgmental when people get confused.

*nods* An unfortunate down-side.

 

[Stalker0]

I will agree with the OP on the lack of a CR index. It is the one index out of all the 3 books that I have used frequently in previous editions.

Right now it doesn't seem like a big deal. A year from now when the newness has faded and I've seen every monster picture 100 times...i will still use the indexes.

And when I have a 7th level party and I just need a few monsters to provide an appropriate challenge...I will miss that index.


I disagree wth the OP on the other points, the layout is different but seems I work just fine

 

[Imaro]

I will agree with the OP on the lack of a CR index. It is the one index out of all the 3 books that I have used frequently in previous editions.

Right now it doesn't seem like a big deal. A year from now when the newness has faded and I've seen every monster picture 100 times...i will still use the indexes.

And when I have a 7th level party and I just need a few monsters to provide an appropriate challenge...I will miss that index.


I disagree wth the OP on the other points, the layout is different but seems I work just fine

There's a monster by CR download on WotC's site... and I'd argue it's easier to use than one you would have to flip back and forth from in the book.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

There's a monster by CR download on WotC's site... and I'd argue it's easier to use than one you would have to flip back and forth from in the book.

Especially when there's two/three/four books, plus online additions. A CR index isn't like a regular index or table of contents, because it's most useful when it contains all potential options. An updated online list that contains CR/XP, source book, and other desirable searchables (terrain, etc) is far more useful than an instantly out of date paper index that took up valuable page count. If you need it printed that badly, print it and stick it in the back of the book.

 

[drjones]

Also, the odds that DungeonScape will not include the option to list monsters by what criteria you select and to modify and save them in one spot is 0. The book is gorgeous and has lots of inspiration for DMs but at the table I would rather use digital tools that are easy to search than any book no matter how it is laid out.

 

[Eejit]

Honestly what's the issue with Monster Creation being in the DMG rather than MM? The only person using those rules will be a DM and they'll invariably have both anyway.

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

The cr index should have been in the MM, but it's free to download and will probably be in the DMG, along with spell points and the death domain and other stuff that arguably could've gone in the PHB.

 

[Sailor Moon]

2 things about this. One as many people have already pointed out, there is already a CR list online, so if you really want it, it's there. Secondly, I have found myself needing a CR less and less over the course of designing adventures for my players. CR is and has always been a guideline, but it means even less in this edition because monsters can be viable over the course of most levels. So with this edition instead of going "Ok, what monsters are exactly 10 CR so I can use them against my PCs?" I say "Huh, what monster would be really cool to fight? Ok they're challenge rating 5, so I'll just through 5 or 6 at them to make it challenging and maybe throw in this monster that happens to be CR 8. Looks good."



As others have stated, the monster manual has almost never been a place for monster creation, and it's been known for months that this one wont be either. Why you expected it to be is beyond me. Furthermore, remember that the monster manual has always been a compendium of monsters to look up when you're either running a written adventure, or want some interesting ideas for things to throw at people. Not everybody is as deeply creative as some of the DMs on these boards, so it's nice to have something there. IT's also good to note that this time around they are really serious about the DM's Guide being the ultimate adventure creator. With a CR list, traps, monster creation, magic items, etc, you won't have to flip back and forth in the monster manual and player's handbook to create anything. It'll all be right there at your disposal.



Ok, I had to do a quick glance through the monsters to see which ones had spell casting, because I seriously didn't remember that many. Turns out there are about 45/300+ monsters that have innate spell casting. A little bit more than I thought, but still only 15%. The surprising thing to me was how few spells these monsters had. Heck, a Mind Flayer, something I've always associated with spell casting, only has four spells total! Many have even less, and only a very few have more than six. The vast majority of creatures have some different little ability that isn't spell casting, so now you're just spewing hyperbole.

Quick question.

Have you actually DMd the game yet? Thinking CR is a loosely based guideline will give your players a world of hurt, also if you are trying to go off past editions then you will fail because the difficulty of monsters has changed.

You miss understand my spellcasting comment, instead of a real variant they are just offering spells. I didn't say anything about too many spellcasters.

 

[Sailor Moon]

So you're complaining that something that we know (because we've been told by the designers) is going into the DMG isn't in the MM, and you're scared that they'll have to cut... something?

And you'd have rather they sliced a bunch of monsters out (which, I think you'll find, pretty much everyone else would hate to see) and made us wait for a year or more for them, instead of you just waiting until early December for what you have already been told they are delivering?

I understand your concern about the limited space in the DMG, but I think it will be fine. The designers and layout guys know where they have space and what they need to be doing with it. A list of monsters by CR (and terrain) will also be in the DMG- again, that's where encounter-building resources traditionally go.

Not to disparage your concerns, but to me, this seems like a lot of blustery wind without much behind it. You'll get your monster design guidelines soon enough. If you can't wait, check out Surfarcher's blog posts about it; they will help.

Thing is, they already put custom monster creation in the book but only did it half heartedly.