D&D General 6E But A + Thread

[Scribe]

I mean, of course people enjoyed 3rd edition. It managed to be even more broken than 1st. People love being able to break reality over their knees. It's power fantasy you can apply to other people. What's not to love?

Yes, I am sure that is one if many reasons it was preferable.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Logic suggests that people who like what they are getting rarely complain about it (much), even if they don't like how they got it. I was fairly happy with 5e when it came out. Given that, I think it's understandable that I didn't complain much at the time. It's when you stop getting what you want that folks start to take notice, and then to take action.

Logic suggests that if I think something is right for the wrong reasons, I should call it out because that's going to cause more problems than it solves. Because it is straight up hypocrisy to accept a thing I like even though I dislike why it exists, only to reject something I dislike because I dislike why it exists. That's self-contradictory, which is the opposite of logical.

Selfishness suggests that people will take what makes them happy even if they hate the reason why it exists, only to then get mad when that same exact reason starts producing things that don't make them happy (or even make them unhappy). Because selfishness isn't about being consistent, it's about a standard that only cares how something affects the speaker, regardless of why or how.

It's not logic. It's "I got mine, who cares if it was in a crappy way?"

 

[Micah Sweet]

Like this?

View attachment 415956

I've always loved that book. Man I love 2e!

 

[Micah Sweet]

Personally I want spells to be less gated than they are now, not more gated. That way a PC can really drive what they want to do based on their story or character idea instead of having it dictated to them or having arbitrary obstacles to them getting a certain spell.

That way you can build a combat focused spell caster and not choose other kinds of magic or you can build one and then also choose those other kinds of magic, whatever works for you and your character idea.

This is really the main thing I want out of 6E. Spells like Armor of Agathys and Dissonant Whispers should not be gated behind specific classes.

If we assume a similar level-based spell system then what I would like in 6E is to put all the spells in one big pool by level - If your character gets to pick a 1st level spell then pick any 1st level spell you want. Not this list for Clerics and that one for Sorcerers and only Warlocks can get Hex.

I think there should be more gates between different spellcasting classes, as part of a multi-prong effort to further differentiate types of magic.

 

[Micah Sweet]

they probably should not do that one either, so the question is how you determine this part of the fanbase. Is it simply anyone participating in the UAs?

I strongly suspect it is. Who else bothers filling out length surveys? That group is always going to be a small percentage of actual customers.

 

[Chaltab]

I chuckled but thats hilariously dismissive of a style of game and play which many enjoyed far more than the 'New and Improved' game that set Wizards up for thinking they may only get to release one more version before the lights are turned off.

I really don't want to rehash edition war nonsense. My point wasn't even that 4E was a resounding success (obviously it wasn't) but that every edition of D&D, even the controversial ones, are a response to common complaints about the previous one. The 4E designers weren't just designing in a vacuum.

Same thing with the 5E revision, flawed as it may be--it is a response to actual complaints about the 2014 game. And I imagine that whenever the actual 6E comes out and whatever form it takes, it will be a response to complaints about both versions of 5E.

 

[Micah Sweet]

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

I think they knew a lot better than you give credit for. Because they literally did ask for feedback, and they objectively did respond to it. We have proof. Unless you've forgotten the Golden Wyvern Adept fiasco, and how it proved that WotC literally could do no right?

Then what happened @EzekielRaiden ? Sounds like WotC did everything right. Did 4e fail due to a series of bad luck circumstances alone? Because we have strong evidence that isn't the case.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Logic suggests that if I think something is right for the wrong reasons, I should call it out because that's going to cause more problems than it solves. Because it is straight up hypocrisy to accept a thing I like even though I dislike why it exists, only to reject something I dislike because I dislike why it exists. That's self-contradictory, which is the opposite of logical.

Selfishness suggests that people will take what makes them happy even if they hate the reason why it exists, only to then get mad when that same exact reason starts producing things that don't make them happy (or even make them unhappy). Because selfishness isn't about being consistent, it's about a standard that only cares how something affects the speaker, regardless of why or how.

It's not logic. It's "I got mine, who cares if it was in a crappy way?"

It is logical, you just don't like the implications. Your feelings about it are valid, but they don't change anything.

 

[Minigiant]

Reminder. 4e was released nearly two decades ago.

It's playstyle (apparently?) can now be found in Draw Steel.

Draw Steel is close to 4e.

Proof that 4e was a style that a noticable part of the community wanted. It was just too early and lacked the celebrity to wash over the changes that people wanted to happen but didn't want to see.

That's why personally in my preferred 6e, I would create or redesign certain classes that would have internally their own class features that would mimic the 4e Style.

Like the Ranger, Warlord, Sorcerer, War priest would have Healing surges, Encounter and Nova features, Primary and secondary roles. etc

Or go really mem-y and make all the "War" classes very 4e.

• Warden
• Warlock
• Warlord
• Warmage
• Warper
• Warpriest
• Warrior

WAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRR!!!

 

[Chaltab]

Then what happened @EzekielRaiden ? Sounds like WotC did everything right. Did 4e fail due to a series of bad luck circumstances alone? Because we have strong evidence that isn't the case.

It failed to make Daddy Hasbro happy but it found and audience and wasn't unprofitable. It just wasn't profitable enough for the rapacious jaws of a megacorp.

MCDM, Lancer, and others have proven there's an audience for that style of gameplay, even if it's smaller than the blue ocean 5E is going out to.