D&D 4E A 4E Combat Encounter - Round by Round Descritpion

Bayonet_Chris

First Post
Kids

LowSpine said:
I like the way you had the Kobolds eating a kid. Even a bleeding heart liberal would have a hard time not killing a kid eater. (Bloody Hippies.)

Gets rid of the Roleplay dilemas of alignment.

You can derail a campaign if you're not too careful. As someone who has small children, there is no better way to put my character on a crusade of kobold genocide than something like this.
 

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D'karr

Adventurer
Delgar said:
Are you sure about that?

The divine challenge mark is clear that the old mark is lost if you mark someone else.

In the case of the fighters mark it's not a power just an ability to mark when he attacks. By a strict reading of the rule he could do it when he takes immediate attacks and opportunity attacks. I of course can be totally mistaken.

The part of the information on the Fighter's sheet that is important about this is "new mark supersedes and old one."

When a fighter marks a new target the is using a new mark. This mark supersedes the old one to his previous target.
 

Delgar

First Post
I believe the new mark superceding an old mark is also written in the paladin's entry and is talking about if someone else marks the opponent the new mark takes it's place. Again I could be wrong but I think most of the evidence points to the fighter being able to mark multiple foes.

D'karr said:
The part of the information on the Fighter's sheet that is important about this is "new mark supersedes and old one."

When a fighter marks a new target the is using a new mark. This mark supersedes the old one to his previous target.
 

Knight Otu

First Post
D'karr said:
All that tells you is that Thicket of Blades might be a power that allows you to mark more than one opponent. We don't know for sure.
It fits quite well with what the Combat Challenge ability actually says, though.
when you attack you mark the enemy, giving a -2 to attack targets other than you, one mark per enemy, new mark supersedes old one)
The first portion tells us when the fighter marks. The second and third portion tells us what happens when a marked creature becomes marked again (we know that because the paladin divine challenge uses basically the same wording, just with a few more words). No portion tells us to remove a mark from one creature when we mark a different creature, unlike the divine challenge, which explicitly does state so. Given that the wording is pretty much the same otherwise, I see no reason to discount the differences.
 

Delgar

First Post
I don't call that derailing the game, I call that the DM tossing the ball in the players court and they run with it. Those are the kind of games I love playing in. IF the players want to destroy all the kobolds in the world who am I to stop them. Of course these could just be a small tribe of feral kobolds. :)

Bayonet_Chris said:
You can derail a campaign if you're not too careful. As someone who has small children, there is no better way to put my character on a crusade of kobold genocide than something like this.
 

D'karr

Adventurer
Delgar said:
I believe the new mark superceding an old mark is also written in the paladin's entry and is talking about if someone else marks the opponent the new mark takes it's place. Again I could be wrong but I think most of the evidence points to the fighter being able to mark multiple foes.

The problem is that the description for both stipulate only one mark per enemy, which automatically takes care of someone marking a target you've already marked. But if that is the case, then why do I need to know that a "new mark supersedes an old one?"

So either one part of the description, for each of the powers, is irrelevant and not needed, or it means that both parts of the description are needed so that whenever I start a new mark the old one is superseded. But the power of the divine challenge specifically tells you that the mark from divine challenge does not go away if I use a different power to mark another target.

A mark is a general rule. The Divine Challenge makes exceptions to that.
 

D'karr

Adventurer
Knight Otu said:
No portion tells us to remove a mark from one creature when we mark a different creature, unlike the divine challenge, which explicitly does state so. Given that the wording is pretty much the same otherwise, I see no reason to discount the differences.

You are reading it backwards. Marking is stipulated by a general rule. The Divine Challenge provides one of the exceptions.
 

Delgar

First Post
No only one mark per enemy tells you how many marks a target can have on them. The new mark superceding the old mark tells you that the new mark takes the place of the old mark. Without that rule you don't know which mark wins. Anyway, thats the way that I read and understand the way the fighters mark works.

D'karr said:
The problem is that the description for both stipulate only one mark per enemy, which automatically takes care of someone marking a target you've already marked. But if that is the case, then why do I need to know that a "new mark supersedes an old one?"

So either one part of the description, for each of the powers, is irrelevant and not needed, or it means that both parts of the description are needed so that whenever I start a new mark the old one is superseded. But the power of the divine challenge specifically tells you that the mark from divine challenge does not go away if I use a different power to mark another target.

A mark is a general rule. The Divine Challenge makes exceptions to that.
 

Knight Otu

First Post
D'karr said:
But if that is the case, then why do I need to know that a "new mark supersedes an old one?"
Because marks might have also been resilient, resulting in "old mark suoersedes a new one," based on initiative count ("faster mark supersedes a slower one"), by class ("paladin mark supersedes fighter mark"), etc, while still being true to the "one mark per enemy" description. If it weren't part of the one mark per enemy rule, it would be redundant with the portion that tells us that a paladin can only mark one enemy with that power.

D'karr said:
But the power of the divine challenge specifically tells you that the mark from divine challenge does not go away if I use a different power to mark another target.
Sure. Because it told you that marks made with further uses of that power do remove older marks made with that power.
Also, do note that the fighter ability to mark is not a power - it's a class feature.

D'karr said:
A mark is a general rule. The Divine Challenge makes exceptions to that.
Then why use the Divine Challenge rules as the default as you did below? ;) It's what I've been saying - there are default rules to marking, and both the Fighter and the Paladin add their own things to that, and do it differently. The paladin marks through powers. The Fighter marks through every attack.

D'karr said:
The Divine Challenge from the paladin has the most comprehensive explanation on marking. If you mark with the same power, the old marked opponent is no longer marked. If you use different powers to mark, you may mark multiple opponents. Only one mark per opponent.
 

D'karr

Adventurer
Knight Otu said:
Then why use the Divine Challenge rules as the default as you did below? ;) It's what I've been saying - there are default rules to marking, and both the Fighter and the Paladin add their own things to that, and do it differently. The paladin marks through powers. The Fighter marks through every attack.

I'm not using it as the default. I'm showing that the Divine Challenge stipulates things that are different (Exceptions) than the way a mark (General) works.

I see what your argument is and that could be an interpretation.

I could be wrong, but without the full rules or more information from WotC I'll stick to what we used at DDXP, which was as I have explained.
 

Zaruthustran

The tingling means it’s working!
Hey, is this the first 4E rules argument based on an actual game session (as opposed to just arguing theories)? We could be witnessing history!
 

D'karr

Adventurer
Zaruthustran said:
Hey, is this the first 4E rules argument based on an actual game session (as opposed to just arguing theories)? We could be witnessing history!

:lol: History in the making... I rolled my History and got a success... :lol:
 

Delgar

First Post
I like to think of it as more of a discussion, than an argument. With limited rules to look at, short of an actual designer coming in and saying, yah it should be this way. We won't know till June.

Zaruthustran said:
Hey, is this the first 4E rules argument based on an actual game session (as opposed to just arguing theories)? We could be witnessing history!
 

Delgar

First Post
Okay so here's the setup for the next encounter I'm going to do a write up for. I'll post the complete first encounter later.

Another Combat Encounter – 4E style

CAST


Kathra Ironforge – Female Dwarf Fighter
Skamos Redmoon – Male Tiefling Wizard
Erias the Sunlord – Male Human Cleric
Riardon Brightvale – Male Eladrin Ranger
Corrin Reedson – Male Halfing Paladin​

The Setup:

Kathra crashes through the wooden door and slams it shut and puts her back to it. Skamos is off to her side, and vomits. Corrin and Erias are trying to shuffle the rest of the townsfolk off into the basement. Riardon has his bow drawn and loaded aimed at the door. Women are screaming, and children are crying. The town hall is packed with people.

“Get me something to block this door with now!” Kathra yells.​
“Get those peple into the basement quickly,” calls out Riardon, “and make sure they nail the door shut.” He lowers his bow and starts dragging a table towards the door.​
Skamos gags again. “Oh my god, did you see,” he gasps then coughs. “Did you see what they did to Tira.” He vomits again.​
“Stay calm people,” Corrin calls out the crowd, “stay calm and move quickly into the basement.” He looks at a middle aged man that is also trying to direct the crowd. “You know what to do right?” The man nods at him.​
Erias looks up at the heavens, and holds up his sun medallion to his lips and kisses it gently. “Watch over us Pelor, and help us hold back the darkness.​
The door thuds, knocking Kathra forward a bit. Kathra steadfastly tries to hold the door closed. Terrible bloodcurdling screams can be heard off in the distance from outside as other victims are claimed.​
The door thuds again.​
“I’m not going to be able to hold this closed much longer,” Kathra calls out.​
Skamos backs away from the door, wiping his mouth.​
“Get those people in the basement NOW!” Riardon yells out.​
The door flys open knocking Kathra back.​

DM: Roll Initiative
 
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jimpaladin

First Post
I want to thank the OP for this thread! I read earlier in the day and now just read the lateast "to me" entry. What I was going to knock the lack of Fluff. Every DM knows that is what gets the creative juices flowing.

*Unless you work in a mathamatical field or related in which case numbers might be it for you!

I'm in sales the only number I like is the one in my bank :D
 

Delgar

First Post
Yah, I wanted to put more fluff and flair into it but in the end just typing out all the mechanics became very time consuming, and that was what I was really looking to demonstrate.

jimpaladin said:
I want to thank the OP for this thread! I read earlier in the day and now just read the lateast "to me" entry. What I was going to knock the lack of Fluff. Every DM knows that is what gets the creative juices flowing.

*Unless you work in a mathamatical field or related in which case numbers might be it for you!

I'm in sales the only number I like is the one in my bank :D
 


valeren

First Post
Great encounter. Thanks for the post.

Just curious, do you guys have any idea on what the comparative levels of 4e characters are to that of 3.xe ones? I mean, like what CR in 3.xe encounters can be at par with the new buffed up 4e level 1 characters?

Thanks
 

Delgar

First Post
Wow. Well I'm glad it was well recieved. I was just trying to show some old players of mine how 4E would play out. Seeing the rules, the characters, the abilities is one thing. But seeing them in action is another.

Pagan priest said:
Thanks. This thread has done far more to induce me to consider actually buy 4E than all of the previous previews combined.
 

Delgar

First Post
I can't really say. When I ran a playtest (not this one) I had a player comment (negatively I might add) that it felt like we were already 5th level. In my mind that was a rousing success. Of course the second time I ran them through an entire module and the same player commented on how fun the dragon fight was, so what can I say. :)

valeren said:
Great encounter. Thanks for the post.

Just curious, do you guys have any idea on what the comparative levels of 4e characters are to that of 3.xe ones? I mean, like what CR in 3.xe encounters can be at par with the new buffed up 4e level 1 characters?

Thanks
 

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