A bit tired of people knocking videogames...

[jmucchiello]

Seriously...I never thought this thread would go to 30 pages. I skipped a good 15 of them, but the debate hadn't changed in that timeframe.

Well actually it changed a couple times and returned to the original debate. You missed the good part probably.

I just find it really odd that there is an argument being made for an assumption that I should know what you are talking about if you use a very vague term. And, if I express frustration at the insistence of people to use a vague term (even when asked to clarify, because some people - not necessarally in this thread - have been asked and have replied in equally vague terms), that is somehow a wrong and terrible thing to do.

You say this but didn't respond to my line of reasoning:

The broadcaster is not being vague on purpose. The broadcaster is being vague because they are not trained in rhetoric and they are not expecting debate level speaking to be required in a gaming forum. What you are being blamed for is seeing malice (videogamey condemns video games) when seeing ignorance suffices.

No one is telling you you are wrong to feel frustrated. I'm just saying it is useless to express that frustration. As I said to MrMyth:

If someone posts a comment that says an RPG is too videogamey, with no other context... then the discussion still can't begin until I respond with, "What in the world do you mean by 'videogamey'?"

And what's wrong with that?.... There is no reason to be for or against "videogamey". If you don't understand, ask for clarification.

 

[jmucchiello]

Well, I still maintain I've absolutely seen people make the comparison to video games with the view that video games are a more mindless and inferior form of entertainment to an RPG. I can see the original response as a reasonable one to such an attitude.

Is it wrong to believe video games are mindless and inferior to RPGs? This is an opinion. Why are you bothered by someone else's opinion? How can you go through life if other people being dismissive of something you like BOTHERS you? I hate beans. Should bean lovers be upset?

As for how hard it is to just ask for clarification... it certainly isn't the end of the world, sure. At the same time, all I've said myself is that using such an uncertain term, especially in a casual and dismissive fashion, is unlikely to further a discussion.

And I've said they aren't necessarily being casual and dismissive. They could just be uninformed about how YOU feel a comparison to videogamey is.

If they are just being argumentative and are dismissive after you asked for clarification, move on. Why would you care if there were further discussion if they refuse to communicate? You can't be everyone's friend.

 

[Diamond Cross]

Is it wrong to believe video games are mindless and inferior to RPGs?

I personally believe so, yes.

Because it's like somebody insulting another person over whether or not they like Star Wars or Babylon 5.

And I find that utterly ridiculous. Especially among a group of people who are generally not acceptable to mainstream society. You'd think that people who are treated in this kind of fashion would learn to be more acceptable of individual choices and tastes instead of this xenophobic tribalism junk we get. You'd think that people who are not generally acceptable by mainstream society would learn to be more accepting of other people's differences.

But they generally are not.

Or we wouldn't have stupid junk like the retarded edition wars.

I really don't care if you like something different than me, but that just makes you different, not better, not worse.

I just don't like it when people start copping attitudes like they're better because they do this idiotic thing.

You like the color bluer, I like the color green. I like tomatoes, you like oranges.

What should it matter?

(Disclaimer: By you I mean general you and nobody specific.)

 

[Raven Crowking]

The term "videogamey" is often understandable in context, and requires no further definition for me to understand what the writer is saying. Someone else, however, might not be able to glean the specific meaning of a broad term from context, and might wish to ask for more detail.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

You're cool with doing that for "simulationist" but not OK with doing that for "videogamey."

Sounds like a classic double-standard to me.

Because the problem with the second is that it is the only avenue of conversation. <snip>

No it isn't.

You could launch into how TTRPGs & CRPGs have been cross pollenating for years; how you've gotten good things from computer games for your TTRPGs, and so forth, much like you say you could do for simulationsm.

 

[The Shaman]

If the GM goes along with something, I can do it in any tabletop RPG. If they don't, I can't. The system involved is irrelevant.

Some roleplaying games are conceived to provide a very specific, very limited range of experience, and their mechanics are designed with that in mind - The Mountain Witch, frex. It is not a 'do anything' game, which is actually one of its strengths.

While it can be adapted to different settings, the mechanics the game provides are focused on a specific style of play.

One of my few points of agreement with the FoRE* crowd is that system does, in fact, matter.



*Friends of Ron Edwards

 

[Glade Riven]

Well actually it changed a couple times and returned to the original debate. You missed the good part probably.

You say this but didn't respond to my line of reasoning:

No one is telling you you are wrong to feel frustrated. I'm just saying it is useless to express that frustration. As I said to MrMyth:

Meh. So long as I'm not breaking forum rules and ticking off the establishment, I'll post what I please. And considering that posters usually know at least enough written English to type cohesivly, that is usually an indicator that they've had at least enough schooling on how to formulate a basic argument.

Oh, and no, I do not care about my spelling mistakes or grammatical errors when posting on forums. In fact, right now I'm just waiting to see how long this thread goes.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Meh. So long as I'm not breaking forum rules and ticking off the establishment, I'll post what I please.

You should realize that this is the same basic argument that those who use the term "videogamey" are taking, right?

 

[Glade Riven]

Yes. Yes I do. But don't expect me to know what you are talking about unless you clarify. See previous posts in this thread for clarification.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Yes. Yes I do. But don't expect me to know what you are talking about unless you clarify. See previous posts in this thread for clarification.

Requests for clarification, when made in good faith, should always be deemed not only acceptable, but commendable.


RC