A Book on Philosophies

[AaronLoeb]

Coming Soon!

Hey, JD.

Actually, yes, I'm putting the finishing touches on just such a book coming out this summer from Green Ronin. It's called Book of the Righteous and it details 20+ faiths, each with a complete ethos and philosophy. There are intra- and inter-faith conflicts, secret societies, heretical cults and more.

The faiths are all connected through a mythology and cosmology that you can either use or discard (the churches work stand-alone, but have the added beneit of a common mythos if you like). Nearly every church details the clergy, the holy warriors and one prestige class, including the roles of those members and, for the clerics, their different philosophical leanings based on alignment. (Since we know only LG, LN, and LE clerics can serve a LN god, it makes sense to explain the differences in their outlooks.)

The book is really, really big, so it has a lot of crunchy material AND a lot of flavor material. It will be out at Gen Con and weigh in at 320 pages, hardback. I'm sure Chris or I would be happy to answer any questions about it. And, you should check out Touched by the Gods. It's wicked cool.

Thanks!

Aaron

 

[I'm A Banana]

Very interesting....

...but to get the true feel I'm looking for I'd like to see these philosophies and thought-clubs distanced from religion itself. Sort of a "Sect A believes X, which may be compatible with religions 1, 2, and 6879."

Maybe that's not very coherent. ^_^

I plan on checking these out, but they do seem fairly entwined with the religious structure of the campaign, whereas mine, while perhaps interacting, wouldn't be as dependant on it. It's not so much a "my god believes this!" as it is "*I* beleive this, and that's why I worship a god who does likewise."

Maybe it's a bit of a fuzzy line, but I tend to like my philosophies distanced from the faiths that may or may not interact with them.

More than religious scheming and god-politics. More of a way to frame how you look at the world around you, perhaps dependant on the religion, perhaps independant of it.

It's like, the worshipers of Pelor believe he keeps the evil spirits of the night from ruling everything (or something like that). He fights back the darkness. His worshipers believe darkness is the breeding ground of evil and seek to eliminate darkness wherever they find it.

OR

You believe darkness is the breeding ground of evil. Bumps in the night are obviously created by horrific and dangerous creatures. Only the light provides refuge. Images of shadowy beings hunting you in the twighlight haunt your dreams and cause you to become sweaty-palmed when forced to rely on torches and candles. The unknown lies beyond the radius of light, and the unknown is dangerous.

This may lead you to a belief in Pelor, or a belief in some god of knowledge (such as Vecna) trying to find out what is in the darkness so you're not afraid of it, or belief in some Cthuluoid monstrosity that as long as you appease it will continue to allow the sun to rise, or belief that it is your singluar duty to eradicate darkness.

The former instantly frames the belief as part of a church or cult, as the organization of a god. The latter allows you to define your character's reasons for things, and allow your imagination to take off from there.

Why is he afraid of the dark? How could that frame his race, class, alignment? What kind of feats or PrC's would he endeavor for? For a dwarf to be affraid of the dark is a lot more unique than for, say, an orc or gnome. Perhaps he would become a Paladin to eradicate the darkness, or an Illusionist to try and understand it.

So, yeah...that's my rant. I'll definately check these out, but I think that in the event that I get this published by the good people to offer me above, we'll mostly avoid overlap.

Besides, IMHO, there can never be enough beliefs in the world of the PC's. ^_^

 

[Horacio]

KM, I love your idea. Really.
But what can you expect from a PS fan?

 

[Valen]

I love this idea. In fact, I love is so much that I registered just so I could reply.

I've been kicking around a variation on this idea for some time, essentially philosopher cities/kingdoms.

Disclaimer: Although I have been kicking around these ideas, I haven't read these books/philosophers for some time and may get a few mixed up.

For instance, imagine the PCs encountering Plato's Republic as a living, working kingdom. It would be ruled by philosopher kings and divided into the gold, silver and bronze (I think it was bronze) castes. Each citizen would know their place. This could provide hours of fun as PCs are confronted with having to deal with this regimented society.

Imagine governments based upon other philosophers:

Mills Utilitarianism - The PCs enter a hedonistic city where the citizens are expected to do whatever brings them the most pleasure, provided that it does not impose upon the pleasure of others. Or how about this, the PCs are walking down the street and witness two armed men attacking a third, unarmed man. The PCs, being good, may step in and help the unarmed man. The armed men then attack the PCs and are killed (or severely injured). Now the city guard show up and charge the PCs with a crime, namely the PCs' actions resulted in two men dying when, had they not acted, they would have killed one. To be acquitted, the PCs must prove that the value of the one life was of greater utility than the other two.

Hobbes Leviathan. Life outside the city walls is nasty brutish and short. In order to enter the city, everyone must sign a social contract that they will submit to the absolute whims of the sovereign king and that they will obey his every wish and command. In exchange, the citizenry are protected from one another. The patrols are great and oppressive, making sure that no one harms another. The citizenry will not revolt because they prefer draconian governments to anarchy. What happens when a trusted friend of the PCs is accused of harming another citizen. Will the PCs violate their social contract and protect their comrade from the sovereign king?

II can't remember the name of the philosopher with the "veil of ignorance" idea, but the idea truly lends itself to fantasy. The idea of the "veil of ignorance" is this: the ideal (or only truly acceptable) government is one that would be chosen by individuals who were under a veil of ignorance in which they did not know their race, background, social status, etc. Such individual's ignorant of such things, would choose a governmental system that was truly the best for everyone. Now imagine a kingdom in which the veil is real, a magical device that robs the citizenry of all knowledge of their social status, etc. The citizens choose a form of government and leaders, and then find out who they are. This lends itself to all kinds of ideas. or accusations start to arise that one of the citizens had retained their memory while under the veil...

In all, I have fondness for philosophy and I think it can have a great affect on an rpg, not only on the individual character scale, but on a larger campaign world/region scale. It is ripe with story ideas. It gives the DM options beyond is this city good or this one is evil. If the players encounter a war between a good and an evil kingdom, they know immediately who to assist. If they encounter a war between Hobbes' Leviathan and Mills Utilitarian City, the choice blurs. Philosophies can stretch across alignments making it possible for a party of LG and CE to work together. Does anyone else agree that these ideas have potential? I for one would love to work on such a book.

Sorry to ramble on so, but I really think we're on to something....

 

[Frilf]

Sounds like a marvellous idea, KM. We might put out a product along this line ourselves (once our initial push of race materials is out of the way). This was planned from the beginning of our company as support product to show the general ethical and philosophical motivations each PC race in our world would play out as far as flavor. Besides, I have a soft spot for all things philosophical and have a great interest in this area. (Indeed, I have a degree or two in the field).

The organization of real-world philosophical thought into workable game mechanics would be a stiff challenge, but we are willing to try. Any particular area of focus? Ethics? Metaphysics? Cosmology? Semiotics? Logical systems? All of the above? How about non-real-world philosophies that deal with magic, psionics, etc?

IMHO, d20 really is suffering a bit from over-crunchification. I've got lots of crunchy bits. Now I need some flavor or it will quickly become the Grape Nuts of Gaming We'd be willing to produce ans sell some of this flavor for a reasonable fee, of course

Contact us via email (see our website), KM, if you'd like to work on such a project with us.

Cheers!

 

[I'm A Banana]

Sweet! I caused a registration.

Yeah, I think it's truly a great mine for ideas. I'm a firm believer that mechanics should mostly follow from the concepts. E.G.: My character is like this. Now I need a Feat/PrC that fits that.

3e just makes it MUCH easier to do.

I'm one for including both semi-real-woprld and not-real-world philosophies, and a strange blending of the two. I'd steer mostly away from cosmology (that's the domain of the Manual of the Planes), but perhaps trace the area when I describe philosophies that would hinge on cosmology.

As a for-instance, take a look at Atheism: the belief that there are no true divine magical forces.

Now adapt it to a D&D-like setting, where gods walk the planes and priests work miracles on a daily basis -- turn the "there are no gods" into "these guys are just powerful posers trying to leech your belief!" So anyone can become a "god," and they're not really special or siginificant, and there's no reason why you should worship them. The sad priests are just puppets for the divine puppetmaster.

Introduces all sorts of concepts -- feats that negate divine magic, PrC's that focus on killing deities, etc.

And there could definately be things beyond simple character development. Imagine the cleric PC coming to a town like this, or one NPC villain dedicating himself to the killing of the cleric PC, or something along those lines.

I'm excited about it. Ideas are good. ^_^

 

[Horacio]

KM, I will buy your book, as sure as Sigil!

 

[Torque]

It's on its way!

I would like to announce that Silicon Phoenix Gaming has reached an agreement with KM, and will be publishing this book, probably sometime this fall or winter. Our plan is to release it initially as a PDF, followed by a print version if circumstances allow. The contents are essentially the same as the initial proposal, but if you want a short recap, here is the blurb:

No two paladins hold to the exact same pillars of truth and justice. No demon fights for the same reasons and motivations as its accursed brethren. No character has an alignment, or worships a god, or even takes a class, without a fundamental reason shaping their choices. Philosophies and Falsehoods is designed to help you determine that reason. It contains a full ruleset on how to design and place your own original belief systems, as well as a number of already-detailed beliefs modular enough to fit into any campaign and complete with mechanics specific to those who hold to them. Philosophies and Falsehoods will grant you tools you can use to find the answer to the question of "Why?" Beliefs shape the way your character behaves. So only one question remains: What does your character believe in?

 

[Ashy]

Hey, KM - just don't forget your ol' pal Ashy...

 

[Horacio]

Congratulations, KM!

Just don't forget you ol' PW.com friends