D&D 5E A brief rant about Rime of the Frost Maiden, farming, logistics, and ecology

[FitzTheRuke]

I don't disagree with any of that.

My position has been more that

A) there are holes
B) they were not filled by the deisgners
C) filling those holes can make the adventure more interesting.

All very reasonable things to believe!

But, can we point to why if you can solve it with magic for year 1 that magic can't keep doing that for a very extended period of time?

I mean, spells restore daily, so they are as reliable as human muscle power. If there is something we can do for a week, through sheer muscle power, it is likely we could do it for a very extended period of time (barring working ourselves to exhaustion, which is not something you seem to be able to do with magic)

Well, while the adventure kinda-sorta (actually does) say that things have been the way they are for two years, it ALSO makes it clear that things have been getting worse during that time. This is why I immediately decided that they must have been worsening for two years, until they are at the point "now" that they describe, rather than "two years ago everyone woke up to it being this way".

Either magic was never quite up to the task, or things have gotten worse. Frankly, I'd go for both.

 

[Coroc]

It's not either-or, though. It's not "without magic two years is untenable, but with magic two centuries is a doddle." There's a whole continuum between those extremes.

Still it is a survival horror correct me if i interpret to much into the module.
For me that means the common people are in a desperate situation, with very little clerical support, if at all, fleeing isn't an option aka the possible escape route is to cold or blocked by snow masses.
The PCs are there and preferable get stuck also, and hopefully put an end to the situation. While they are doing that, they have to endure the same hazards as the local population.

If you want to run this like Neverwinter but a few degrees colder, but no worries because there is some caster on every corner to cast protection from elements while you go shopping - ah i forgot, no food deliveries, but no problem the caster has memorized create food also and will help you out then fine by me, but I am very sure that this is not the story the module tries to communicate.

 

[MarkB]

Still it is a survival horror correct me if i interpret to much into the module.
For me that means the common people are in a desperate situation, with very little clerical support, if at all, fleeing isn't an option aka the possible escape route is to cold or blocked by snow masses.
The PCs are there and preferable get stuck also, and hopefully put an end to the situation. While they are doing that, they have to endure the same hazards as the local population.

If you want to run this like Neverwinter but a few degrees colder, but no worries because there is some caster on every corner to cast protection from elements while you go shopping - ah i forgot, no food deliveries, but no problem the caster has memorized create food also and will help you out then fine by me, but I am very sure that this is not the story the module tries to communicate.

Again, there is a whole continuum of possibilities between "no magic" and "caster on every street corner". Including plenty of options for "enough to delay the inevitable, but not prevent it."

 

[TwoSix]

I think maybe the

no, it’s just different priorities from what you prefer. Nothing to do with quality.

I am personally glad that they don’t worry about stuff like this.

Honestly, if I'm going to run a prepublished adventure, this is the stuff I want them to worry about. Cool NPCs and story hooks are easy. Logistics is hard.

 

[Protonicmass]

Paizo Dungeon is the High Mark of D&D adventure design.
Paizo Dungeon was so good, it splintered the Republic, and lead to a separatist movement.

I own Ptolus signed copy #24. Ptolus is so good, Monte Cook just raised millions of dollars by selling it again.

So you don't just expect "good", you expect the Best. If it ain't Shakespeare it is (let's act like men here and say naughty word).

Out of curiosity, are you converting the Shackled City AP to 5e? That requires effort, is that a demerit?

To me Shackled City was just OK, great for parts....but it did not engage me like Age of Worms did, or Castle Maure.

WOTC needs to learn some things from Paizo, for certain.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I'm not judging, but it seems that we neuro-diverse gamer types often get caught up in an all-or-nothing black-and-white mindset. I'm guilty of it myself, of course.

 

[p_johnston]

So when I read the book for the first time it took me about 5 minutes to go "well that doesn't make sense" and decide that if I were to run the module winter would only be a few months late. I actually decided that I was going to have the players come in at what was supposed to be the end of winter and see the effects of the never ending winter over a few months as they level up.

It is perfectly acceptable to have things that don't make perfect sense in a story. The problem comes when the things that don't make sense are central to the story being told. When telling a story it is expected that the audience (in this case the players) are going to engage with, think about, and ask questions about that story. When basic questions about that story fail to have any sort of logical answer it makes the audience disengage with the story and stop caring.

The central conflict is that the two years of darkness and winter have driven the region to the brink of despair. People are terrified and desperate, willing to sacrifice their fellow man to try and appease a cold and uncaring god. So a very reasonable question to ask as a player is "why are the people desperate?" because of course you want to know what kind of horror you as a hero are saving them from. The obvious answer is "they are running out of food and fuel and will soon starve/freeze to death." The problem is that this brings up the next very obvious question "why now? Why are they running out now and not a year or 18 months ago?" To which the module gives no obvious answer. So now because the players know that that question has no satisfying answer they are more likely to ask other questions that also don't have any answers. "If they can survive two years with no obvious explanation whey can't they survive 2 more? or 10 more?" "If they were able to survive two years through presumably magic why are they so desperate that they started to sacrifice people? "If things are that desperate why aren't people leaving? If people can't leave how did we get here? If we were always here why haven't we done something about this problem in the last two years?" "Wait if Auiril can just freeze an entire region why is she doing so now? Also what's to stop her from doing so again whenever she reforms? Also why is she freezing an area full of people instead of a random abandoned area on the spine of the world?" "Wait isn't Drizzt like native to this region? If it's been two years why are we dealing with this and not him?" Next thing you know they players have gone from having fun and engaging with the story to not caring because nothing makes sense.

 

[jasper]

Assuming people have eaten through the supplies and are now facing death. Reduce the population each month by 10 people each month. This either due to them moving away, dying due to lack of food, or getting eaten. (Eaten by whom you say?? I not saying.)

 

[Protonicmass]

I'm not judging, but it seems that we neuro-diverse gamer types often get caught up in an all-or-nothing black-and-white mindset. I'm guilty of it myself, of course.

At least you're worried about grey. Some people these days, they think things can be both black and white at the same time, depending on your "opinion"!

 

[Protonicmass]

I think you are being too generous. At least pop music has a catchy beat and provides some entertainment until it quickly fades into obscurity. New WOTC releases are just garbage.

I think you're being too generous to pop music!