D&D 5E A brief rant about Rime of the Frost Maiden, farming, logistics, and ecology

[Chaosmancer]

I think part of it is people have a real problem understanding just how long you could survive on starvation level food levels. So long as you have water and heat, you could survive years on starvation food levels. Your farm animals are all dead, so, they got eaten. Pests and pets are now gone. The people are down to boiling boot leather for calories.

Survive doesn't mean in comfort.

I think it is fair to counter that though with a bit from the OP. He mentioned that the text says "the taverns are abuzz" which immediately raises some red flags if everyone is at the "boil boots for calories" stages of starvation. Especially in a place where that means guaranteeing frostbitten feet.

The story would be far darker if we were dealing with that level of starvation, and it seems the tone does not match with that idea.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Again, they probably want to leave it up to the individual tables as to just how dark we want to make our games. Some wouldn't mind a truly horrific game while others really want a pretty lighthearted affair (even in a nominally-themed horror game).

 

[Hussar]

I think it is fair to counter that though with a bit from the OP. He mentioned that the text says "the taverns are abuzz" which immediately raises some red flags if everyone is at the "boil boots for calories" stages of starvation. Especially in a place where that means guaranteeing frostbitten feet.

The story would be far darker if we were dealing with that level of starvation, and it seems the tone does not match with that idea.

Fair enough. Living that far north, stores could be more extensive, thus, the towns aren't quite at the end of the rope, just a few months away from it. Again, as I said, you can go a long time without full calories per day. It might be better to compare the ten towns to drought/famine stricken areas, rather than the year without summer.

 

[cbwjm]

I have tied some pcs to Ten-Towns. Some people have paid 5GP for rumors. I give them the rumors on slips of paper. Those rumors also go on to the Facebook write up, and the big map. Currently my messenger feed is dinging at me. They are plotting on taking over the gem mine. Current plan is to murder the mine owner. Use the kobolds as slaves. Feed them using the cauldron of plenty. Some players do want to pay the kobolds some money. I have two counters to this but some of my players read this forum.

I read 5G and thought for a split second that people in Ten-Towns were blaming the weather on the new 5G network...

 

[Burnside]

I think part of it is people have a real problem understanding just how long you could survive on starvation level food levels. So long as you have water and heat, you could survive years on starvation food levels. Your farm animals are all dead, so, they got eaten. Pests and pets are now gone. The people are down to boiling boot leather for calories.

Survive doesn't mean in comfort.

That's not the situation that's described in this book. Life is way too normal.

 

[p_johnston]

You have some good questions there but do you honestly think the DM or players isn’t capable of answering them...

... Why now (Stores have run out)

... why not 2 more years (...Stores have definitely run out?

... Why don’t people leave (When people have always lived here and leaving involves heading out to unknown monstrous lands surrounded by blizzards and no food? would you take your kids into that? Or bunker down and hope for the best?)

... How did PCs get there (Sounds like a classic question for the PCs not the DM)

... Why turn to sacrifice ( ... No... Really... Stores have run out)

... Why have we not fixed the problem before (Escalation or the fact that the PC was alone. Again it sounds like a question for the PC not the DM)

... Why doesn’t Drizzt help? (It’s a big world and Drizzt travels)

... Why is Auril acting now and why in IWD (Why did Lolth orchestrate the Silence? Why did Bane steal the tablets of date? Why did shar create the shadow weave? To build personal power and further set goals. She wants to freeze life in ice - harder to do where there is no life. She also has followers in the area. Create an icy stronghold.)

Those are some of the easiest questions I’ve seen to answer on this thread. Much easier than asking why the ave temp is -45 degrees C.

The problem isn't that the questions don't have answers that i can make up as a GM. The problem is none of the answers are present in the book.

To clarify i don't think most of those need answers either. My point is that a central question that most reasonable people will ask does not have any answer in the book. It isn't even acknowledge as something someone might ask which means that that aspect of the story failed.

 

[TheSword]

The problem isn't that the questions don't have answers that i can make up as a GM. The problem is none of the answers are present in the book.

To clarify i don't think most of those need answers either. My point is that a central question that most reasonable people will ask does not have any answer in the book. It isn't even acknowledge as something someone might ask which means that that aspect of the story failed.

Do you not think this question and similar about how the PCs get there will depend heavily on the PCs. There is a whole section on backgrounds and secrets to get PCs involved.

Do you really think the story has failed?

 

[pukunui]

That's not the situation that's described in this book. Life is way too normal.

I think that’s because they want it to double as an Icewind Dale campaign setting as well as an adventure, so they’ve written locations to be as generic as possible so people can use them in their own adventures with minimal effort if they want to.

It tracks with previous 5e adventures. They’re all meant to be pretty cut and paste.

 

[p_johnston]

Do you not think this question and similar about how the PCs get there will depend heavily on the PCs. There is a whole section on backgrounds and secrets to get PCs involved.

Do you really think the story has failed?

In regards to the pc secrets and backgrounds? Not really. I actually really liked the secrets for the most part.

My point on that particular question is that its one more way that the "two years of winter" makes the story make a little less sense, but not so much that it breaks the story in that case.

My point was that when something major doesn't make sense (how are the fish/yeti/trees/anything alive?) It makes people more likely to question other minor details (wait if its been two years why hasn't me/drizzt/mordenkainen done anything?)

 

[Chaosmancer]

I'm not sure I entirely get The Sword's point. But I think there is a salient point in there.

The question of the two year winter is something I see as very similiar to questions about the PCs, how they got to Icewind Dale and why. In fact, on an earlier point I made, I pointed to the fact that different solutions to the two year winter problem could play differently depending on the group and the characters, by focusing on different tones and themes to connect to those characters.

And, according to him, there is an entire section on the backgrounds and the secrets to get them involved in the story. There was a bit of effort to make sure that tie-in was solidly built.

So, since I see them as very similiar needs within the story (it is in some respects "why are we here" and "why does it matter" which are two major points in storytelling) then I think it is fairly clear why I see this as a lack. Again, the story doesn't fail without making up for this lack. Not having answers to these sorts of questions is very common in fantasy.

But generally, when these sorts of things come up in novels or movies, the expected answer is "you are thinking too much about this, just focus on enjoying the story the author is telling". The problem with this as a DnD experience is that we are the authors, even as players. And this sense that we are incorrectly "thinking too deeply" about the setting, the goals, the motivations, and the consequences of the world... is a little jarring for me. We should encourage deeper thought, I would expect, not treat this the same way we treat more passive media.