D&D 5E A brief rant about Rime of the Frost Maiden, farming, logistics, and ecology

[akr71]

-2 years: Auril casts her spell. By spring it becomes clear that the sun isn’t as high as it should be, and days are still short. Spring comes late. People find it weird but hey, weird naughty word happens all the time...

-18 months: Summer was short, harvest was bad this year. Sun is still too low for early fall. Winter comes early. People brace for a long winter. Hopefully next year will be better.

-12 months. Winter was long and hard. By all standards it still is winter, although it should be spring by now. People hope for a good summer to catch-up. Many contemplate moving out of the area. Special provisions and imports are made.

-6 months. Days are almost as short as winter solstice early in fall. Winter is early again. Many fields freeze before yielding crops. Low birth rate in wildlife in the springs now shows. Game is rare, Wolves and predators become more daring. People start to take more desperate measures.

now: this times winter isn’t going to end. The sun hasn’t moved since winter solstice. If anything it is lower now. Temperatures are lower now than they have ever been. Spring isn’t gonna come. People start to do crazy naughty word now. Intervention, heroic, divine, or else, is the only foreseeable solution...

How much time and effort did it take to write this up? Probably not too long right? I ask because I assume that any purchased adventure is going to take some work for the DM. Not just reading and familiarizing, but editing, plugging holes in logic and just generally making it work for their players.

I don't have RotFM, but what I have seen and read (mostly here) does seem like WotC cut some corners and didn't think other things through. What else is new?

Even my own homebrew adventures I am constantly editing, and rewriting based on what my players do. My NPC's and monsters aren't static, so when the players zig when I'm expecting them to zag, I spend some time between sessions trying to figure out how to adjust.

 

[Zaukrie]

The premise of the thread as stated in the OP is that "I have a problem with this so this is how I would fix it". If people expressed their concerns and then stated "this is how I would modify it", this thread probably would have gone on for a page or two.

I agree that at a certain point life will end, but personally I think people underestimate how resilient and resourceful people (and wildlife) will be.
So if I were to run this mod, I'd probably not make a big deal of it and borrow the "gradually getting worse" someone else suggested if it ever comes up. But the basic premise is that spring should be springing and it's not, so the fundamental premise is the same. Fix it, or the region becomes a frozen lifeless wasteland.

I think that's the easiest way to deal with it, but I also think that's not how it currently reads.

on another note, I mentioned online I was publishing Dwarves of Icewind Dale this week, and someone read that and put out a competing product today. Never mention what you are working on if you are a tiny publisher. Sigh.

 

[Laurefindel]

How much time and effort did it take to write this up? Probably not too long right? I ask because I assume that any purchased adventure is going to take some work for the DM. Not just reading and familiarizing, but editing, plugging holes in logic and just generally making it work for their players.

I don't have RotFM, but what I have seen and read (mostly here) does seem like WotC cut some corners and didn't think other things through. What else is new?

Even my own homebrew adventures I am constantly editing, and rewriting based on what my players do. My NPC's and monsters aren't static, so when the players zig when I'm expecting them to zag, I spend some time between sessions trying to figure out how to adjust.

Not long at all. It would be an important part to edit for me, but the "fix" itself is easy.

As for the casual feeling of the inhabitants, I imagine something went like this:

Mayor: “Alright folks, I gathered you all here because it looks like winter’s not gonna end and we’ve gotta do somethin’. Any suggestions?”
Townie #1: “Couldn’t we have some food teleported here? Easy-peasy.”
Mayor: “Do you know the price of a teleport spell these days? This isn’t 3.5 anymore! We could barely afford the food, never mind the spell! Anything else?”
Townie #2: “What about a few human sacrifices to Auril? Would that work?”
Mayor: “No, we aren’t going there! Besides, it isn’t a sure bet.”
Cultist: “Pardon me sir, but I’m sure Auril would be down for a few sacrifices. Let me get my…”
Mayor: “I said no! We ain’t sinking that low.
Cultist: “Alright alright! I need to, hum, use the backhouse… Don’t wait for me!” (exits through back door)
Mayor: “So, any other ideas that don’t include magic or sacrifices?
Townie #3: “We could charter a ship and have food delivered? Delivery would be nice for once. Less dishes…”
Mayor: “Do you know the price of a ship transport these days? This isn’t 1e anymore! We could barely afford the shipment, let alone tipping the delivery guys! No, we’ve gotta think of somethin’ else.
Townie #4: “What about sending a bunch of adventurers to defeat Auril?”
Mayor: “Do you know the price of high level adventurers these days? This isn’t the Crystal Shard anymore! Hey speaking of which, you Dwarves have another good drow in your basement or somethin’? No? Too bad…”
Townie #4: “What about low-level adventurers? They’re a dime-a-dozen!”
Mayor: “Ah, come on. Low level adventurers can’t do crap. We’d need to make them stronger somehow, and I’m not playing hireling with anyone under 10th level. I’m old school like that…”
Townie #2: “What about side-quests to have them level-up?”
Mayor: “Side-que… Wait, this could work! We send them on pointless errands for a while until they’re strong enough, then we point them in the right direction!”
Townie #3: “Hey, we could send them after Chwingas… Like we did with Larry! We had a good laugh!”
Dwarf #1: “They could go get my cart o’ iron that got stuck last week. Save me the trouble…”
Mayor: “Yes, yes, those are great! Hey Bob, didn’t you have a monster in your lake or something?”
Bob: “Oh, that thing? We haven’t been fishing there in years!”
Mayor: “Doesn’t matter, a good monster is a good monster. Hey Billy, you could fake a few Yeti attacks! We’ll send them to investigate!
Billie: “On it!”
Mayor: “Great! Ok folks, this has a chance of working! All we need is…”
Townie #1: “Hey Mayor, there a group of adventurers on the way!”
Mayor: “High level?”
Townie #1: “Nah, they look pretty green.”
Mayor: “Awesome! Ok, at your places everyone! Don’t come at them too hard at first. Try to look casual!”
DM: “Beneath the unyielding night sky, you stand before a towering glacier and recite an ancient rhyme, causing a crack to form in the great wall of ice. Beyond this yawning fissure, the Caves of Hunger await…”

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Not long at all. It would be an important part to edit for me, but the "fix" itself is easy.

As for the casual feeling of the inhabitants, I imagine something went like this:

Mayor: “Alright folks, I gathered you all here because it looks like winter’s not gonna end and we’ve gotta do somethin’. Any suggestions?”
Townie #1: “Couldn’t we have some food teleported here? Easy-peasy.”
Mayor: “Do you know the price of a teleport spell these days? This isn’t 3.5 anymore! We could barely afford the food, never mind the spell! Anything else?”
Townie #2: “What about a few human sacrifices to Auril? Would that work?”
Mayor: “No, we aren’t going there! Besides, it isn’t a sure bet.”
Cultist: “Pardon me sir, but I’m sure Auril would be down for a few sacrifices. Let me get my…”
Mayor: “I said no! We ain’t sinking that low.
Cultist: “Alright alright! I need to, hum, use the backhouse… Don’t wait for me!” (exits through back door)
Mayor: “So, any other ideas that don’t include magic or sacrifices?
Townie #3: “We could charter a ship and have food delivered? Delivery would be nice for once. Less dishes…”
Mayor: “Do you know the price of a ship transport these days? This isn’t 1e anymore! We could barely afford the shipment, let alone tipping the delivery guys! No, we’ve gotta think of somethin’ else.
Townie #4: “What about sending a bunch of adventurers to defeat Auril?”
Mayor: “Do you know the price of high level adventurers these days? This isn’t the Crystal Shard anymore! Hey speaking of which, you Dwarves have another good drow in your basement or somethin’? No? Too bad…”
Townie #4: “What about low-level adventurers? They’re a dime-a-dozen!”
Mayor: “Ah, come on. Low level adventurers can’t do crap. We’d need to make them stronger somehow, and I’m not playing hireling with anyone under 10th level. I’m old school like that…”
Townie #2: “What about side-quests to have them level-up?”
Mayor: “Side-que… Wait, this could work! We send them on pointless errands for a while until they’re strong enough, then we point them in the right direction!”
Townie #3: “Hey, we could send them after Chwingas… Like we did with Larry! We had a good laugh!”
Dwarf #1: “They could go get my cart o’ iron that got stuck last week. Save me the trouble…”
Mayor: “Yes, yes, those are great! Hey Bob, didn’t you have a monster in your lake or something?”
Bob: “Oh, that thing? We haven’t been fishing there in years!”
Mayor: “Doesn’t matter, a good monster is a good monster. Hey Billy, you could fake a few Yeti attacks! We’ll send them to investigate!
Billie: “On it!”
Mayor: “Great! Ok folks, this has a chance of working! All we need is…”
Townie #1: “Hey Mayor, there a group of adventurers on the way!”
Mayor: “High level?”
Townie #1: “Nah, they look pretty green.”
Mayor: “Awesome! Ok, at your places everyone! Don’t come at them too hard at first. Try to look casual!”
DM: “Beneath the unyielding night sky, you stand before a towering glacier and recite an ancient rhyme, causing a crack to form in the great wall of ice. Beyond this yawning fissure, the Caves of Hunger await…”

That, my friend, is hilarious, and probably the truest interpretation of the plot of the adventure!

 

[Azzy]

Did the Icewind Dale (pre-Auril intervention) having polar night in winter and midnight sun in summer ?

I am by no means an expert on the Forgotten Realms, but I haven't seen it mentioned in the sources I've read (though I could have easily missed something).

 

[Laurefindel]

That, my friend, is hilarious, and probably the truest interpretation of the plot of the adventure!

It’s true! I was there!

I even proposed charging 5 silver pieces for rumours, you know, to finance the whole thing. They shut me down back then but look at them now; they’re charging 5 gold pieces!!!

 

[FitzTheRuke]

It’s true! I was there!

I even proposed charging 5 silver pieces for rumours, you know, to finance the whole thing. They shut me down back then but look at them now; they’re charging 5 gold pieces!!!

Five pieces of gold? Are ye daft, man? That there's a king's ransom! Didja giver a bite, t'make sure she's real? What's next? A full gold for a night's lodgings? Stayin' at the palace, are ye?

 

[Chaosmancer]

Having less fun? Pretty obviously. You're worried and need to change stuff and I don't. It wasnt a relative worth statement, just the obvious.

Going out and looking for things to be offended about is a step beyond, my good man. I've been chill and non judgemental in this thread. Relax.

Didn't come across as chill and obvious.

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I mean, sure, we talked about the Druids and Clerics, but I don't know if I'd say we "added" them. They've always been in D&D and are all over the place in the adventure. I mean, it doesn't spend time telling us exactly how they're keeping everyone alive, but one could assume they are, just based on how the D&D world works.

The spell Auril is casting wouldn't really need to change much - it just took time to build to its full power.

You seem to have missed my point.

The adventure doesn't tell us they are acting to keep everyone alive. That is true. And in the absence of telling us that, why should we assume they are? The adventure tells us plenty else about how things are working. It tells us about the the people of the Dale use oils from fishing to heat their homes and light lamps, instead of wood. That seems to be a far more minor detail than "Oh, and the religious community is tirelessly using their magic to keep everyone alive"

And, you can assume that Auril's spell somehow needed multiple castings to actually do what it states that it does... but again, the text doesn't tell us that. That is you adding to the text.

And, this starts a dangerous trend doesn't it? "based on how the DnD world works" we could assume that Elminster has teleported into Auril's stronghold and is fighting her to end the endless winter. We could assume Driz'zt and his companions are struggling forwards against the blizzards to face her down. We could assume that Mystra finds this magic goes beyond her imposed limit of 9th level spells and begins fighting Auril over the misuse of magic.


We can assume a lot, based on how DnD worlds work. But none of them are true, according to the text of the adventure.

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Not long at all. It would be an important part to edit for me, but the "fix" itself is easy.

As for the casual feeling of the inhabitants, I imagine something went like this:

Mayor: “Alright folks, I gathered you all here because it looks like winter’s not gonna end and we’ve gotta do somethin’. Any suggestions?”
Townie #1: “Couldn’t we have some food teleported here? Easy-peasy.”
Mayor: “Do you know the price of a teleport spell these days? This isn’t 3.5 anymore! We could barely afford the food, never mind the spell! Anything else?”
Townie #2: “What about a few human sacrifices to Auril? Would that work?”
Mayor: “No, we aren’t going there! Besides, it isn’t a sure bet.”
Cultist: “Pardon me sir, but I’m sure Auril would be down for a few sacrifices. Let me get my…”
Mayor: “I said no! We ain’t sinking that low.
Cultist: “Alright alright! I need to, hum, use the backhouse… Don’t wait for me!” (exits through back door)
Mayor: “So, any other ideas that don’t include magic or sacrifices?
Townie #3: “We could charter a ship and have food delivered? Delivery would be nice for once. Less dishes…”
Mayor: “Do you know the price of a ship transport these days? This isn’t 1e anymore! We could barely afford the shipment, let alone tipping the delivery guys! No, we’ve gotta think of somethin’ else.
Townie #4: “What about sending a bunch of adventurers to defeat Auril?”
Mayor: “Do you know the price of high level adventurers these days? This isn’t the Crystal Shard anymore! Hey speaking of which, you Dwarves have another good drow in your basement or somethin’? No? Too bad…”
Townie #4: “What about low-level adventurers? They’re a dime-a-dozen!”
Mayor: “Ah, come on. Low level adventurers can’t do crap. We’d need to make them stronger somehow, and I’m not playing hireling with anyone under 10th level. I’m old school like that…”
Townie #2: “What about side-quests to have them level-up?”
Mayor: “Side-que… Wait, this could work! We send them on pointless errands for a while until they’re strong enough, then we point them in the right direction!”
Townie #3: “Hey, we could send them after Chwingas… Like we did with Larry! We had a good laugh!”
Dwarf #1: “They could go get my cart o’ iron that got stuck last week. Save me the trouble…”
Mayor: “Yes, yes, those are great! Hey Bob, didn’t you have a monster in your lake or something?”
Bob: “Oh, that thing? We haven’t been fishing there in years!”
Mayor: “Doesn’t matter, a good monster is a good monster. Hey Billy, you could fake a few Yeti attacks! We’ll send them to investigate!
Billie: “On it!”
Mayor: “Great! Ok folks, this has a chance of working! All we need is…”
Townie #1: “Hey Mayor, there a group of adventurers on the way!”
Mayor: “High level?”
Townie #1: “Nah, they look pretty green.”
Mayor: “Awesome! Ok, at your places everyone! Don’t come at them too hard at first. Try to look casual!”
DM: “Beneath the unyielding night sky, you stand before a towering glacier and recite an ancient rhyme, causing a crack to form in the great wall of ice. Beyond this yawning fissure, the Caves of Hunger await…”

You know, this is very funny, but is kind of also the problem, isn't it?

A lot of the side quests don't make sense for a land on the verge of starvation and death. There isn't that sense of urgency.

And yet, this is a world where the bad guy is winning. Auril's apocalypse is going strong for two years, and it is just as easy to see the opening of the adventure as normal busy work as it is anything else.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

You seem to have missed my point.

The adventure doesn't tell us they are acting to keep everyone alive. That is true. And in the absence of telling us that, why should we assume they are? The adventure tells us plenty else about how things are working. It tells us about the the people of the Dale use oils from fishing to heat their homes and light lamps, instead of wood. That seems to be a far more minor detail than "Oh, and the religious community is tirelessly using their magic to keep everyone alive"

And, you can assume that Auril's spell somehow needed multiple castings to actually do what it states that it does... but again, the text doesn't tell us that. That is you adding to the text.

And, this starts a dangerous trend doesn't it? "based on how the DnD world works" we could assume that Elminster has teleported into Auril's stronghold and is fighting her to end the endless winter. We could assume Driz'zt and his companions are struggling forwards against the blizzards to face her down. We could assume that Mystra finds this magic goes beyond her imposed limit of 9th level spells and begins fighting Auril over the misuse of magic.


We can assume a lot, based on how DnD worlds work. But none of them are true, according to the text of the adventure.

We should assume the Druids are protecting the plants and animals and clerics are supporting their gods' followers, because that's what Druids and Clerics DO.

I know that I'm adding stuff to the Adventure text. Adventures have never been meant to be taken 100% literally without ever tweaking anything. "Make it your own" is the standard. It's probably why they don't worry too much about making it "perfect" (a fool's errand anyway, as we all have different opinions as to what that would even look like.)

You could put Elminster, Dr'zzt, or whoever into the adventure if you're that kind of Realms fan!

I am not. (I've never read any of the books) and I like my player's characters to be the heroes. Some people love those guys, though. Lots of people, apparently. They could go that way.

As far as the other gods go, I kinda would expect them to resist her somehow. Maybe not show-up-and-fight type stuff, but that's not how I usually use gods anyway, but at least make it hard for her to just take over. You know, stuff like empowering their clerics and making her spells not work perfectly every day.

Look, obviously, you don't have to do it my way at all, and that's great!

 

[Zaukrie]

We should assume the Druids are protecting the plants and animals and clerics are supporting their gods' followers, because that's what Druids and Clerics DO.

I know that I'm adding stuff to the Adventure text. Adventures have never been meant to be taken 100% literally without ever tweaking anything. "Make it your own" is the standard. It's probably why they don't worry too much about making it "perfect" (a fool's errand anyway, as we all have different opinions as to what that would even look like.)

You could put Elminster, Dr'zzt, or whoever into the adventure if you're that kind of Realms fan!

I am not. (I've never read any of the books) and I like my player's characters to be the heroes. Some people love those guys, though. Lots of people, apparently. They could go that way.

As far as the other gods go, I kinda would expect them to resist her somehow. Maybe not show-up-and-fight type stuff, but that's not how I usually use gods anyway, but at least make it hard for her to just take over. You know, stuff like empowering their clerics and making her spells not work perfectly every day.

Look, obviously, you don't have to do it my way at all, and that's great!

I like the other gods' ideas.....and think some shrines or quests for the PCs would be a great idea......