D&D 5E A brief rant about Rime of the Frost Maiden, farming, logistics, and ecology

[Laurefindel]

You know, this is very funny, but is kind of also the problem, isn't it?

A lot of the side quests don't make sense for a land on the verge of starvation and death. There isn't that sense of urgency.

And yet, this is a world where the bad guy is winning. Auril's apocalypse is going strong for two years, and it is just as easy to see the opening of the adventure as normal busy work as it is anything else.

I think it has long been established that the description of Icewind Dale's inhabitants doesn't match the sense of urgency introduced in the premise of the adventure.

At this point you can accept it, change it, or refuse to play the adventure, but it is a fair criticism of RotFM.

 

[Laurefindel]

You could put Elminster, Dr'zzt, or whoever into the adventure if you're that kind of Realms fan!

you make it sound like it's a dirty thing...

 

[Chaosmancer]

We should assume the Druids are protecting the plants and animals and clerics are supporting their gods' followers, because that's what Druids and Clerics DO.

I know that I'm adding stuff to the Adventure text. Adventures have never been meant to be taken 100% literally without ever tweaking anything. "Make it your own" is the standard. It's probably why they don't worry too much about making it "perfect" (a fool's errand anyway, as we all have different opinions as to what that would even look like.)

You could put Elminster, Dr'zzt, or whoever into the adventure if you're that kind of Realms fan!

I am not. (I've never read any of the books) and I like my player's characters to be the heroes. Some people love those guys, though. Lots of people, apparently. They could go that way.

As far as the other gods go, I kinda would expect them to resist her somehow. Maybe not show-up-and-fight type stuff, but that's not how I usually use gods anyway, but at least make it hard for her to just take over. You know, stuff like empowering their clerics and making her spells not work perfectly every day.

Look, obviously, you don't have to do it my way at all, and that's great!

"Make it your own" should not mean that we have to finish building the scenario.

How many clerics are listed in the Ten Towns? What gods do they worship? Are they offering their services for free, or is there a cost? Where are the Druids located? What do they think about the Winter? Are some fine with it and others upset about the disruption to the cycle? Are they fighting?

Why did I buy a module that I need to assume the the role of building at least 10 if not more NPCs?

I mean, if I'm buying a module and planning on running it, it is because I don't want to build an adventure myself. In fact, I have often had modules recommended to me as an easier way to DM, because you don't need to build anything, you can just run the module. And if the setting would assume a group is active, by default, shouldn't the module make mention of them?

I get you are happy with things as they are, but this insistence that there is nothing strange about the module being incomplete and contradictory because I'm supposed to "make it my own" is just strange to me. I could have googled Icewind Dale and made my own adventure if I was that determined to make my own Icewind Dale adventure. If I buy the module, I want to run something pre-made, and preferably, complete.

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I think it has long been established that the description of Icewind Dale's inhabitants doesn't match the sense of urgency introduced in the premise of the adventure.

At this point you can accept it, change it, or refuse to play the adventure, but it is a fair criticism of RotFM.

Right, that's my point. It is a fair criticism. So why do I keep getting told it is not a fair criticism? Why am I being told that it is completely natural and expected for me to have to go in and fix the module to "make it my own"?

If that is how things are supposed to be, then my criticism wouldn't be fair. Because I'm supposed to be expected to change it anyways. This is the problem I keep having. People keep saying that these criticisms are not fair, not warranted, and excessive, because we as DMs are supposed to go in and finish writing the module, and editing the parts that make no sense.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

"Make it your own" should not mean that we have to finish building the scenario.

How many clerics are listed in the Ten Towns? What gods do they worship? Are they offering their services for free, or is there a cost? Where are the Druids located? What do they think about the Winter? Are some fine with it and others upset about the disruption to the cycle? Are they fighting?

You can spend time answering those questions if you like, but you can also choose to just assume that these things are happening - NPCs are working to keep other NPCs alive, except where the PCs need to step in. If it doesn't come up for your PCs, then it doesn't really matter (aside from whatever keeps you happy in your head-cannon).

I get you are happy with things as they are, but this insistence that there is nothing strange about the module being incomplete and contradictory because I'm supposed to "make it my own" is just strange to me. I could have googled Icewind Dale and made my own adventure if I was that determined to make my own Icewind Dale adventure. If I buy the module, I want to run something pre-made, and preferably, complete.

That's not quite my position. I've been trying to say that I think the adventure has lots of really nice, very usable bits (great stuff, that I will use in many ways). I've said several times that I agree that there's still plenty of room for improvement. It's a bit extreme of you to jump to "I can make my own Icewind Da

Right, that's my point. It is a fair criticism. So why do I keep getting told it is not a fair criticism? Why am I being told that it is completely natural and expected for me to have to go in and fix the module to "make it my own"?

If that is how things are supposed to be, then my criticism wouldn't be fair. Because I'm supposed to be expected to change it anyways. This is the problem I keep having. People keep saying that these criticisms are not fair, not warranted, and excessive, because we as DMs are supposed to go in and finish writing the module, and editing the parts that make no sense.

No, that's not what we're saying - In fact, many of us have said (I know I have) that it's TOTALLY OKAY for you to criticize the adventure. You can hate it, not buy it, complain about it, whatever you like. That's okay!

And you don't need to rewrite the module if you don't want to. I'm only saying that if you DID want to run the adventure, I am confident that you could change the things that you don't like about it, and keep the things that you do like. That is what I would do (and that's all I've been trying to share). I don't think that it would be as much work as you seem to think, but if you don't want to do that, that's totally okay. I'm trying to be helpful, not judgemental, and I'm pretty sure that's what other people have been trying to do as well.

 

[Chaosmancer]

No, that's not what we're saying - In fact, many of us have said (I know I have) that it's TOTALLY OKAY for you to criticize the adventure. You can hate it, not buy it, complain about it, whatever you like. That's okay!

And you don't need to rewrite the module if you don't want to. I'm only saying that if you DID want to run the adventure, I am confident that you could change the things that you don't like about it, and keep the things that you do like. That is what I would do (and that's all I've been trying to share). I don't think that it would be as much work as you seem to think, but if you don't want to do that, that's totally okay. I'm trying to be helpful, not judgemental, and I'm pretty sure that's what other people have been trying to do as well.

If that was your intent, then I did not catch that. And I apologize.

You can spend time answering those questions if you like, but you can also choose to just assume that these things are happening - NPCs are working to keep other NPCs alive, except where the PCs need to step in. If it doesn't come up for your PCs, then it doesn't really matter (aside from whatever keeps you happy in your head-cannon).

I don't know, I guess I have run into it too many times of the players wanting to dig deeper for me to be comfortable just assuming things are working in the background.

I could easily see them questioning why everyone still has food, mentioning the cleric, and then they want to go and interrogate the cleric or beg them for magical aid. It happens all the time at my tables, so I feel an instinctive need to have that figured out rather than having to figure it out on the fly.

 

[Fenris-77]

I could easily see them questioning why everyone still has food, mentioning the cleric, and then they want to go and interrogate the cleric or beg them for magical aid. It happens all the time at my tables, so I feel an instinctive need to have that figured out rather than having to figure it out on the fly.

This is what I was getting at, not that my style is better than yours, or that my game mastery is superior, but only that different DMs with different styles have different needs and desires as far as prep goes. The fact that I would be completely unconcerned with pre-prepping this has nothing to do with what works for you or what you should to fix it so that it works. Different prep for different styles and different tables.

 

[Azzy]

Can we have a group hug now?

 

[Remathilis]

Can we have a group hug now?

Only Death's cold embrace allowed here.

 

[jasper]

I live on Baffin Island, which has a predominantly Inuit population. There are no trees here for campfires, no wood at all occurs naturally. Traditional heating in winter here is done via an oil fueled lamp. Other Inuit populations elsewhere have access to wood, but the ones in the high arctic do not. It takes less than you'd think to heat a small insulated room like an iglu, especially when people are dressed for the weather.

Very interesting. Looks at the Ten-Towns maps. See no iglu. This is the problem some of are griping about.

 

[Fenris-77]

Very interesting. Looks at the Ten-Towns maps. See no iglu. This is the problem some of are griping about.

Add some insulation to a pair of smaller rooms in any building and you have the same thing. I'm not sure why this is the bone you're choosing to pick.