D&D General A Class's Spell List Should be Listed With the Class Description.

[Vaalingrade]

I am not down with every spell being unique to one class. If 6 different classes are intended to be able to Cure Wounds or remove conditions with Lesser Restoration, why should there be 6 different versions of Cure Wounds, or Lesser Restoration? It's a waste of space. Spell lists that all appropriate classes draw from is one of the biggest design strengths of the game.

That might be a concern if we were ever getting a new class again until the 5x line gutters out.

 

[Horwath]

The solution seems obvious: Make the spell lists unique to each class. I mean. There's no sensible reason why a Cleric would need access to a list of Wizard spells, for example.

This would also be beneficial in that it would require that spell lists contain only unique spells. It would make the bard more interesting since they would have unique bard spells. The wizard would have unique wizard spells etc. etc.

or make one spell list and every spellcaster can access the total of it.

much simpler.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

That might be a concern if we were ever getting a new class again until the 5x line gutters out.

Subclasses, feats, and magic items are sources of spells too. Every time we create a new subclass with a short spell list that contains spells that perform a basic function covered by other spells, do we have to create a new spell to represent that function?

 

[CreamCloud0]

or make one spell list and every spellcaster can access the total of it.

much simpler.

maybe we could...subcategorise this unified list in...multiple ways without repeating the spells by...assigning them with data markers...some sort of...tag...ging system?

 

[MuhVerisimilitude]

or make one spell list and every spellcaster can access the total of it.

much simpler.

That could also work, but it has the weird problem that it makes all casters have access to the same spell lists. It makes classes even less distinct than they are already.

If we had some kind of tag system like in PF2 it would work better. I love the tag system.

 

[Horwath]

That could also work, but it has the weird problem that it makes all casters have access to the same spell lists. It makes classes even less distinct than they are already.

If we had some kind of tag system like in PF2 it would work better. I love the tag system.

sure, but even originally, that divine/arcane split is completely arbitrary, just to fill 2 different needs in the party by forcing it with separate spell list.

why cannot a mage pick its role in the party simply by picking spells and class features/feats that support certain type of spells?

want to be a healer?
pick healing word, cure, heal, (lesser)restoration, raise dead, etc...
pick healing cleric subclass features and part of star druid healing features.

want to be a fire mage?
pick burning hands, scorching ray, fireball, fire elemental,
pick evoker features, pyro sorcerer freatures or wildfire druid features.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Subclasses, feats, and magic items are sources of spells too. Every time we create a new subclass with a short spell list that contains spells that perform a basic function covered by other spells, do we have to create a new spell to represent that function?

I vote we don't make subclasses that have spells the cover the basic functions of other spells.

And we make it retroactive. So eldritch knight has to get spells that let them be a magic swordsman instead of a wizard with a big knife.

 

[Horwath]

I vote we don't make subclasses that have spells the cover the basic functions of other spells.

And we make it retroactive. So eldritch knight has to get spells that let them be a magic swordsman instead of a wizard with a big knife.

yes, that is what the game needs... 35 different spell lists and 2000 different spells that all are more or less derivative of 30-40 spells that are in use right now.

 

[MuhVerisimilitude]

sure, but even originally, that divine/arcane split is completely arbitrary, just to fill 2 different needs in the party by forcing it with separate spell list.

why cannot a mage pick its role in the party simply by picking spells and class features/feats that support certain type of spells?

want to be a healer?
pick healing word, cure, heal, (lesser)restoration, raise dead, etc...
pick healing cleric subclass features and part of star druid healing features.

want to be a fire mage?
pick burning hands, scorching ray, fireball, fire elemental,
pick evoker features, pyro sorcerer freatures or wildfire druid features.

Sure.

Then let all non-casters pick all abilities a'la carte too.

 

[Horwath]

Sure.

Then let all non-casters pick all abilities a'la carte too.

just like 3.5E fighter.
I'm all for it.