A couple abilities in Martial Power seem WAY too good...

[deleteme123456]

Same thing with the tempest fighter vs the TW Ranger. In my group, we banned both new fighter styles. At the moment we banned Dual Strike too, because with the Ranger mutliclass feat, you can take a 1H Weapon Talent fighter and make a pretty good tempest fighter that way too, and since you don't have to worry about staying in chain, you're free to wear scale or take plate as a feat.

 

[Stalker0]

There are definitely a few problem items here or there with MP, but on the whole its a solid book, providing a good expanse of options. I hope the arcane and divine books are equally as good.

 

[FadedC]

Yeah overall I was quite happy with martial power. Obviously it wasn't completely balanced, but it still adds a lot to the game. I never expect anything that's introducing 100s of new powers and options to completely balanced, and it's less unbalancing then I thought it would be, while still giving a lot more to think about. Let's hope that trend continues.

 

[BobTheNob]

Yeah overall I was quite happy with martial power. Obviously it wasn't completely balanced, but it still adds a lot to the game. I never expect anything that's introducing 100s of new powers and options to completely balanced, and it's less unbalancing then I thought it would be, while still giving a lot more to think about. Let's hope that trend continues.

I think this is the general consensus. It was a good publication that added alot.

Problem is, where with the PHB they went to so much care to ensure that the sort of numerical furfies of the past didnt spoil the game experience (and OP character screw the game experience), MP seems a little more clumsy, like they were throwing things in without really thinking about the impact it would have on the game as a whole. The publication seems rushed to me.

This topic has raised its head again and again (especialy the BRV). So many threads, so many complaints. At some stage, the community consensus has to be acknowledged by WOTC and become impetuc for reviewing what they have done with MP and publishing some official errata.

Till then (in my game, you guys can play it how you like): BattleRager, Tempest, Marked Scourge, Double weapons (AV I know, but still the same issue)...all banned.

Please WOTC, pay attention to the community on this one

 

[Dan'L]

Problem is, where with the PHB they went to so much care to ensure that the sort of numerical furfies of the past didnt spoil the game experience (and OP character screw the game experience), MP seems a little more clumsy, like they were throwing things in without really thinking about the impact it would have on the game as a whole. The publication seems rushed to me.

Really? The PHB seemed MUCH more rushed to me than Martial Power. The mess of the Wizard class, the underdevelopment of Paladin powers, the glaring oversights of things like a workable Stealth skill?

This topic has raised its head again and again (especialy the BRV). So many threads, so many complaints. At some stage, the community consensus has to be acknowledged by WOTC and become impetuc for reviewing what they have done with MP and publishing some official errata.... Please WOTC, pay attention to the community on this one

If WOTC paid attention to the communal internet whinings of fans, there wouldn't be a 4ed to begin with.

And I, for one, sincerely hope that they do not listen. Really, the complaints boil down to, what, that the Fighter class -- the class specifically built around a concept of the guy with the armor and the big nasty weapons who has trained his life for combat -- now has some build options that actually let them feel like they are competent at their vocation? Because the scrawny lockpick should be the deadliest threat a group has to offer in a weapons melee? Should you tell the player who's pictured himself playing the badass in armor with a big honking sword that his contribution to damaging the enemy pales next to the leather-clad midget with a dagger? Conceptually, doesn't it make more sense for the "Fighter" to be the best at, well, "fighting?"

Let fighter players feel like they're playing a fighter, not some just some glorified wall. If you don't want to play a fighter, then fine, don't; but why rain on the happy of those who do?

-Dan'L

 

[Istar]

really? The phb seemed much more rushed to me than martial power. The mess of the wizard class, the underdevelopment of paladin powers, the glaring oversights of things like a workable stealth skill?



If wotc paid attention to the communal internet whinings of fans, there wouldn't be a 4ed to begin with.

And i, for one, sincerely hope that they do not listen. Really, the complaints boil down to, what, that the fighter class -- the class specifically built around a concept of the guy with the armor and the big nasty weapons who has trained his life for combat -- now has some build options that actually let them feel like they are competent at their vocation? Because the scrawny lockpick should be the deadliest threat a group has to offer in a weapons melee? Should you tell the player who's pictured himself playing the badass in armor with a big honking sword that his contribution to damaging the enemy pales next to the leather-clad midget with a dagger? Conceptually, doesn't it make more sense for the "fighter" to be the best at, well, "fighting?"

let fighter players feel like they're playing a fighter, not some just some glorified wall. If you don't want to play a fighter, then fine, don't; but why rain on the happy of those who do?

-dan'l

hahahahahahah....... Lolololololololo

now that was funny

you sound like me when i started playing wow

and of course thats what this is !!!!

going from 2nd edition to playing wow and now having a go at 4e

the 4e designers are or were wow addicts

 

[WalterKovacs]

And I, for one, sincerely hope that they do not listen. Really, the complaints boil down to, what, that the Fighter class -- the class specifically built around a concept of the guy with the armor and the big nasty weapons who has trained his life for combat -- now has some build options that actually let them feel like they are competent at their vocation? Because the scrawny lockpick should be the deadliest threat a group has to offer in a weapons melee? Should you tell the player who's pictured himself playing the badass in armor with a big honking sword that his contribution to damaging the enemy pales next to the leather-clad midget with a dagger? Conceptually, doesn't it make more sense for the "Fighter" to be the best at, well, "fighting?"

Let fighter players feel like they're playing a fighter, not some just some glorified wall. If you don't want to play a fighter, then fine, don't; but why rain on the happy of those who do?

-Dan'L

While, some may argue that the new fighter abilities stray from the defender role, much more of the complaints are completely about balance. It is one thing to argue that fighters should be good at "fighting" [which is frustratingly vague] ... the ability of the BRV to absorb punishment is ridiculous making it a one man army that could outlast many opponent's. The Tempest problem has to do with the double weapons, that combines:

1 - Weapon damage comparable to non-offhand weapons
2 - Off-hand property that triggers the bonuses as a Tempest
3 - Defensive property that stacks with the TWD of a Tempest to give it equivalent to a heavy shield in AC bonus

So, the Tempest is giving up perhaps a point of AC to wear chain, in order to greatly increase his damage capabilities. So he gets to deal damage comparable to strikers but NOT have to lower his AC accordingly. He gets to have higher AC and higher damage output than a fighter "in armor with a big honking sword".

Basically, the double weapons are a bit too powerful when combined with the tempest build, and the battle rager vigor build, especially combined with the enhancement feats, makes for a character that is just too resilient compared to anything else out there.

If the fighter is best at "fighting", and fighting is basically the point of the game, creating a class that is better than all the other classes makes those other classes pointless.

 

[NMcCoy]

Why is the Defensive property an unnamed bonus instead of a shield bonus, anyway?

 

[deleteme123456]

Because a brutal rogue could say, carry a light (or heavy) shield in one hand and a parrying dagger in the other, if he really felt like he needed a lot of AC.

And a melee ranger could use double weapons and take TWD to get his AC up too.

The real kicker is that TWF is only a so-so feat, except for that it unlocks TWD. Tempest fighters get to completely skip that (and don't have to take Chain and/or Scale proficiency), so they can use feats for weapon proficiences, weapon focus, etc.

 

[BobTheNob]

If WOTC paid attention to the communal internet whinings of fans, there wouldn't be a 4ed to begin with.

The wizard is a bit of a mess, I will give that

And I, for one, sincerely hope that they do not listen.

So.... D&D has lost so much ground to mmorpg's that wotc is branching out into online tools in order to compete(at least, when they get them working), and you think WOTC should incoporate into their new business model ignoring its already dwindling customer base...

You dont work in a marketing department do you?