A couple of questions regarding two psionic powers

[IcyCool]

So are the answers to my two questions not located in the RAW anywhere?

 

[Infiniti2000]

Ah, thanks Rystil, I wasn't seeing any reason for it other than being mean-spirited, which seemed a bit out of character for Infiniti.

Sorry about the confusion Infiniti.

No, problem. I didn't intend for that to sound derogatory at all. I also didn't actually mean that a computer could keep track of things, though that would help. I just meant that CRPG's are typically instantaneous levelling. So, if I have 999XP and I need 1 more to go up a level, I can swap out inventory and/or cast spells before finding and killing the next orc, just so that when I 'level' I maximize my benefits.

I don't like that sort of feel upon levelling. A spell that you cast should have no impact whatsover on the decisions you make upon levelling or upon the abilities you obtain upon levelling. This is just my opinion and I would not fault anyone who disagrees. If you like the instant-level, go for it.

To illustrate, let's take an example 3rd level fighter with a strength of 12. He gains the XP to reach 4th and wants to take power attack. Per my way of thinking, the only option is to put a point in strength and then take the feat. I would not allow him to ask the cleric to cast bull's strength or borrow the monk's gauntlet's of ogre power for 3 minutes while the fighter levels up. If you require the fighter to have the gauntlets on 24/7, you'll have to decide how much time of his 3rd level is 'good enough' to gain the feat. If he takes it off while showering, is that still okay? Etc. I just don't like it.

 

[IcyCool]

To illustrate, let's take an example 3rd level fighter with a strength of 12. He gains the XP to reach 4th and wants to take power attack. Per my way of thinking, the only option is to put a point in strength and then take the feat. I would not allow him to ask the cleric to cast bull's strength or borrow the monk's gauntlet's of ogre power for 3 minutes while the fighter levels up. If you require the fighter to have the gauntlets on 24/7, you'll have to decide how much time of his 3rd level is 'good enough' to gain the feat. If he takes it off while showering, is that still okay? Etc. I just don't like it.

I think you may have gotten something confused.

In your example, said fighter would not be able to use the power attack feat unless he met the pre-requisites. So if the cleric casts bull's strength on him, he can take the feat, but loses access to it the moment the spell wears off. If at some later time he gets the strength boost again, he can use it again.

And for reference, I also house-rule that if you don't meet the prerequisites for a feat, you don't get to qualify as having that feat for other feat pre-requisites.

And if the fighter wants to get the cleric to cast bull's strength on him so he can take the feat, and never gets another strength boost after that, I'm fine with him having wasted a feat.

Edit - If that still bothers you, well, that's how it goes sometimes.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I think you may have gotten something confused.

It wouldn't be the first time, but I don't think so in this case.

In your example, said fighter would not be able to use the power attack feat unless he met the pre-requisites. So if the cleric casts bull's strength on him, he can take the feat, but loses access to it the moment the spell wears off. If at some later time he gets the strength boost again, he can use it again.

The point I'm making, though, is not that the fighter could use the feat unless he met the prerequisites, but that he couldn't take the feat. So, to take the feat, he must increase his strength. Does the 1 min/level on bull's strength (or even 1 hour/level for 3.0) provide enough time to level up? There's no indication in the rules, but I argue, and strongly I admit, no.

But, in the end, your point is valid. He might be considered wasting a feat. It probably makes no impact in terms of balance, but the style is just not my bag, baby.

 

[Rystil Arden]

It wouldn't be the first time, but I don't think so in this case.

The point I'm making, though, is not that the fighter could use the feat unless he met the prerequisites, but that he couldn't take the feat. So, to take the feat, he must increase his strength. Does the 1 min/level on bull's strength (or even 1 hour/level for 3.0) provide enough time to level up? There's no indication in the rules, but I argue, and strongly I admit, no.

But, in the end, your point is valid. He might be considered wasting a feat. It probably makes no impact in terms of balance, but the style is just not my bag, baby.

What would you do if someone gets Polymorphed into a new form permanently by Polymorph Any Object and wants to take INA or another feat for their new form? Can they do it? Is the gain and loss of a Belt of Strength fundamentally different from a Fighter who spent most of his level with permanent Strength drain from a Shadow and then had a Greater Restoration restore his Strength above 13 just before he levels?

 

[IcyCool]

But, in the end, your point is valid. He might be considered wasting a feat. It probably makes no impact in terms of balance, but the style is just not my bag, baby.

Hey, different goats for different folks.

So, once again to clarify, there is nothing for or against using spells and items to qualify for feats in the RAW?

 

[Rystil Arden]

Hey, different goats for different folks.

So, once again to clarify, there is nothing for or against using spells and items to qualify for feats in the RAW?

I could swear that I saw a positive example in the RAW for using items to qualify, but I don't have it on me at the moment.

 

[xen_xheng]

It depends on the DM, quite honestly, as it's not specified anywhere. If you prefer the CRPG-style, then it works. I do not. I also disallow qualifying from items because I don't want to try to track when a character walks through an AMF, takes it off to shower, etc. I view levelling up as the whole adventuring path from the previous level to the new level and not an overnight thing. That's my take on it, though, so YMMV.

I've played a Psychic Warrior focused on claw powers (up to lvl 19), and there are very few ways of improving your claw attacks / damage. You are sticked with 2 attacks (3 if you count bite of the wolf) -compare with a specializaed 2-weapon wirlding fighter with 7 attacks-, and not even the upgraded damage (5d6) makes up in difference. I had always wanted to find ways to improve my claw attacks, at least to be on equal level with a weapon-wielding character of the same level, but didn't find any.

The issue I suppose is not if you can level up instantly with temporary attribute boosts to qualify for a feat, but if it is a reasonable house rule to allow getting those feats even without the prerequisites, since whoever uses them is always hyped up and uses them continuosly. As an example, I never touched a blade, and had the Claws 24h active. A druid can be wild shaped all day with animal form with claws also; a fighter using a STR item for a long time forgets what it is to be weak.

I would never dream of using an item or power for 5 minutes just to qualify at level up; but I DO use almost always ways to get that done. If someone qualifies for the feat 90% of the time, and what is more, he makes it his main way of fighting, wouldn't it be reasonable to be able to use the feat?

 

[kigmatzomat]

Short answer: the rules don't say you can't. They also don't say you can.

This is gray area. I'd post to the Living Enworld metaboard and ask the question there. With shared games, like Living (anything), people generally tend towards absolute rules adherence as it is safest. In my game, yeah, I'd let you do it. In a Living game with dozens (hundreds?) of players I might think twice, fearing the way a twink might start abusing the leeway.

 

[IcyCool]

I've played a Psychic Warrior focused on claw powers (up to lvl 19), and there are very few ways of improving your claw attacks / damage. You are sticked with 2 attacks (3 if you count bite of the wolf) -compare with a specializaed 2-weapon wirlding fighter with 7 attacks-, and not even the upgraded damage (5d6) makes up in difference. I had always wanted to find ways to improve my claw attacks, at least to be on equal level with a weapon-wielding character of the same level, but didn't find any.

It looks to me like Claws of the Beast qualifies you for the improved natural attack (Claws) feat, but that's why I was asking here.

Also, you can't use Bite of the Wolf with Claws of the Beast, as the text in the Claws of the Beast power forbids using the claws with any other weapon.