A Dozen Crossbows Aimed at You ..

[Liolel]

Level 15 characters should not be in serious danger from 12 level 2 characters. At this level they can easily teleport, raise the dead, travel to other planes and perform other incredable feats. They can defeat all but the eldest of dragons, as well as powerful demons and undead. In most settings they would be among the more powerful inhabints of the world. They could easily be going on quests on which the fate of entire kingdoms rest.

When you consider all of that it would be a bit strange that a few mundane guards are still a threat. Or that a dozen mundane crossbow bolts no matter how well aimed are a threat to characters that could probally survive the full power of stuff like dragonfire.

 

[frankthedm]

True. High level D&D is Superheroes, heck once a certain level is reached the PC's spend half their time flying and teleporting around instead of walking like mortals.

A real deal breaker IMHO.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

(sigh) Okay, "first level or less", then. Here are quotes:
- 1E DMG p. 191: "City guard:... 2-16 mercenary soldiers... 1 higher level leader... in addition to the 0 level guardsmen."
- 3E DMG p. 150: "In a community... 1st-level individuals... 5% are warriors.... like this... One 3rd-level warrior (constable), Nine 1st level warriors (two guards and seven militia members)."
Etc.

Provide quotes if you're finding something different.

No, you're absolutely right if the PCs never enter a community of more than 200 individuals, which is certainly possible, but not always plausible, especially if the campaign features buying and selling of magic items or getting NPCs to cast high level spells on their behalf.

In a large community, you're going to have a significant number of fighters (tied with the number and level of rogues, on average), which are just slightly behind the number of warriors above level 1. (DMG 3.5 138-139).

Now, it's certainly possible that they're all ex-adventurer bartenders, but probably not. A certain percentage of them, depending on what sort of community they're in, are likely to be the elite guards that would be sent to, say, take on a rampaging group of level 15 NPCs.

It only takes a small city and a lucky roll by the DM for the top level fighter in town to be level 14, and to have a pair of level 7 captains, a quartet of level 4 lieutenants, and so on. And, in that small city, there will also be barbarians, bards, clerics, paladins, rangers, sorcerers and wizards. Whoops, sorry, double that; I missed the "roll twice" notation there.

Unless this is a city run by the truly stupid, a fair number of those individuals will either be on the payroll or have a standing agreement to troubleshoot when the rampaging band of Chaotic Stupid PCs roll into town.

So, yes, the group of (let's say) six level 15 NPCs won't be surrounded by level 15 guards. They will, however, have multiple level 14 NPCs, twice as many level level 7 NPCs and four times as many level 4 NPCs showing up if they step out of hand.

That's a far cry from "Ha ha ha! I am Invincible Amoral Man! Hand over your wenches and no one gets hurt!"

And that's just the RAW. I'd assume in games that aren't meant to devolve into Monty Hall lunacy, there will be other repercussions if PCs go on a rampage, as previously stated.

 

[Delta]

I assume we can agree that "most" city guards are level 1 or less in any edition's DMG? (As opposed to 5th or something?)

 

[The Cardinal]

This is D&D - so citywatch goons v. high-level PCs is like NYPD vs. Batman: the cops are toast!


...however, in my GURPS campaigns things look very different

 

[Numion]

So, yes, the group of (let's say) six level 15 NPCs won't be surrounded by level 15 guards. They will, however, have multiple level 14 NPCs, twice as many level level 7 NPCs and four times as many level 4 NPCs showing up if they step out of hand.

That's a far cry from "Ha ha ha! I am Invincible Amoral Man! Hand over your wenches and no one gets hurt!"

But still, the first encounter with the town guard would likely be the 1st level mooks. On the account of levels not being printed on the 15th level characters forehead. I'm all for consequences as a DM, so there would indeed be some high-level smackdown coming to the PCs.

First the mooks, then the town elite, then the kings troubleshooters. That is, of course, if the PCs insist on being asses (which can actually be pretty fun.)

 

[ruleslawyer]

Likewise Luke Skywalker swinging over the pit in Star Wars while dozens of stormtroopers ("Look at these blast points. Only Imperial Stormtroopers can be so precise." ) shoot and miss.

As a friend of mine once said:

"They're precise. Just not accurate."

 

[Mishihari Lord]

Should the PC be able to survive all those hits?
Reality answer = No
D&D answer = Yes

Which is why I don't like how D&D handles the situation. When things get this far away from reality it blows my suspension of disbelief.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

But still, the first encounter with the town guard would likely be the 1st level mooks. On the account of levels not being printed on the 15th level characters forehead.

I disagree. Unless these 15th level characters adventure in disguise, they're not going to be unknown quantities. If Mike Tyson starts busting up a bar in Des Moines, very few people aren't going to have an idea of who he is -- and that they need something more than Barney Fife with his unloaded revolver to deal with him.

 

[Razz]

Which is why I don't like how D&D handles the situation. When things get this far away from reality it blows my suspension of disbelief.

It's a game. Ever watched FFVII: Advent Children? Cloud blocking bullets with a sword thrice his size, everyone leaping a hundred feet, impossible motorcycle stunts, and characters suspended in mid-air for a limited amount of time before gravity finally realizes what's going on?

No one cares how or why it's done, it just looks cool. Even the creators of that movie made that statement. It's done because it "looks cool" and people have fun watching it. A lot of people watch shows, anime, or play video games and D&D to do one thing: enter a place that's NOT reality. Become something that they will never become, do what will never be done, and leave behind the toils and troubles of REAL LIFE. Get your game on, laugh and play, and when the session is over, time to go back to real life behind the desk at the office...until the next session that is.

I don't understand why people have this idea to play a fantasy game as realistic as possible? Can someone enlighten me to that logic by any chance?