A Dozen Crossbows Aimed at You ..

[delericho]

at 15th level, a fighter has 10+5.5*14 hit points (statistical average, no con bonus). That's 87 hit points. A heavy crossbow does 1d10 damage, double for crits. Max damage then is 20 damage. That's a drop in the bucket.

Ah, you neglected the Fortitude save (DC 10 + damage dealt) or die. Since the coup de grace is an automatic hit, and since saves are failed on a natural 1, a dozen crossbowmen would have a 1 - (0.95)^12 = 46% (approx) chance of killing anything that is not simply immune to the damage. If the coup de grace is allowed.

That's quite a threat, IMO. (In the one-on-one situation, it's a lot less terrifying, but still a non-trivial risk to the character. A 5% chance of outright death is something I don't think most players will simply laugh at... most of them have seen too many natural 1's at just the wrong moment to be unmoved.)

 

[BlueBlackRed]

I'm under the belief that most "mook" guards should be level 4 warriors by the time they graduate from their training. Then modify that for the size and power of the city and you can have some tough and ready guards.

Granted, a high level PC will still walk away from the fight a winner, it still should not be a pathetically easy fight that the party can start with the belief that they are guaranteed the win.

If every city guard was a level 1 warrior, humanity would never survive in a D&D world.

 

[Numion]

I'm under the belief that most "mook" guards should be level 4 warriors by the time they graduate from their training. Then modify that for the size and power of the city and you can have some tough and ready guards.

Granted, a high level PC will still walk away from the fight a winner, it still should not be a pathetically easy fight that the party can start with the belief that they are guaranteed the win.

If every city guard was a level 1 warrior, humanity would never survive in a D&D world.

I think that PCs should be allowed to flex their muscles from time to time. 15th level characters should sometimes encounter kobolds that aren't boosted by classing them.

They should face challanges, yes, but not everything should level up with them.

 

[Nyeshet]

"What are you trying to tell me? That I can dodge crossbow bolts?"

"No, I'm trying to tell you that when you're fifteenth level, you won't have to."

QFT.

At 15th level you can deal with small armies with little chance of injury - which is why I suggested the use of a small army. Even then, unless W/VP are being used, there is little chance of seriously harming a PC of that level.

Ah, you neglected the Fortitude save (DC 10 + damage dealt) or die. Since the coup de grace is an automatic hit, and since saves are failed on a natural 1, a dozen crossbowmen would have a 1 - (0.95)^12 = 46% (approx) chance of killing anything that is not simply immune to the damage. If the coup de grace is allowed.

Um, why would the attack be considered a coup de grace? The PCs are not helpless. Indeed, they may yet win initiative over the guards unless the guards attack without warning or have already placed themselves and readied an action to attack should the PCs move to attack. Even if the guards win initiative this does not automatically make the PCs helpless.

 

[delericho]

Um, why would the attack be considered a coup de grace? The PCs are not helpless. Indeed, they may yet win initiative over the guards unless the guards attack without warning or have already placed themselves and readied an action to attack should the PCs move to attack. Even if the guards win initiative this does not automatically make the PCs helpless.

All true. I was referring to another post, which suggested using the coup de grace rules for that situation. From there, I was just stating the probabilities.

If I were running the campaign, the situation described would most likely not occur, because the guard wouldn't send mooks after 15th level characters, and because mooks just can't get the drop on 15th level characters in the manner described. However, even if it did come to pass like that, I would let the PCs wipe the floor with the mooks, and probably walk away with barely a scratch. Basically, that's one of the perks of being 15th level.

 

[Delta]

If every city guard was a level 1 warrior, humanity would never survive in a D&D world.

I disagree. Because every city guard is a level 1 warrior (as in every edition's DMG), humanity has a great need for exceptional heroes!

 

[PallidPatience]

I dislike the assumption that the PCs are the only adventurers.

I also dislike the assumption that the PCs are unique. Exceptional is fine. Unique is only good in very special worlds. With creatures of high CR running around, if there aren't some decently high level NPCs to fight them off, there's no society for the PCs to save. Four people aren't going to be able to handle hordes.

Still, the majority of people should be low to mid-level. There should also be plenty of room for advancement for the PCs.

 

[ThoughtBubble]

Well, given that my one lv 15 character was a rogue/shadowdancer, *poof*. Lets say I was playing a fighter though, I'd probably ask them what was going on and act totally unthreatened. Unless these are really ranking guards and they've got a hero alongside them, they're not a threat. I'd extend them a conversation as a matter of courtesy.

Seriously, if being LV 15 still requires being fearful of 12 level 1 creatures, I'm pretty well done with that D&D game. Play grim tales or something.

 

[Victim]

Another reason not to use coup de grace rules in those situations is that the players will then want to jump your main villains with the same method.

 

[Storyteller01]

Dpends on who was called. In our campaign (granted, not a typical one) your typical imperial soldier is a 5th level warrior with 56 hp, armor with a +6 bonus, and decent Dex.

As for escaping, I don't have a problem with it. It based on the rolls (as mentioned, there's that natural 20) and adds dramatic tension to the game.

The player should be more concerned with WHY they were arrested. If they keep having to face this, someone will eventually get lucky.