A Dozen Crossbows Aimed at You ..

[VirgilCaine]

Believe me, players' skills don't always grow in pace with their characters.

I'm sorry, what do you mean by this?

 

[Numion]

I'm sorry, what do you mean by this?

Players don't always use their characters to their fullest effectiveness. Playing a 1st level character effectively is different from playing a 15th level character effectively. If the advancement in levels is fast the player might make more 'mistakes', because he's not used to the new abilities.

Thus, a 15th level group can be sometimes ambushed by lowly guards. 15th level group sure has ways to avoid the guards - but sometimes precautions are forgotten.

For example, my players, even though they know combat tactics, rarely break from the MO of a lower level group. They rarely use divinations with buff + teleport tactics.

 

[Starglim]

If your preferred style of adventure requires the PCs to be helpless if confronted by the city watch, then there are plenty of rulesets that will support it. If the question would never come up in your game, you're playing D&D as it was intended to be played.

 

[Plane Sailing]

you're playing D&D as it was intended to be played.

I must have missed that memo... AFAICS the only way that D&D was 'intended' to be played was 'to have fun'.

IOW, please don't make comments that could imply that people playing in other ways are playing it 'wrong'.

Thanks

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Players don't always use their characters to their fullest effectiveness. Playing a 1st level character effectively is different from playing a 15th level character effectively. If the advancement in levels is fast the player might make more 'mistakes', because he's not used to the new abilities.

This I can agree with.

Thus, a 15th level group can be sometimes ambushed by lowly guards. 15th level group sure has ways to avoid the guards - but sometimes precautions are forgotten.

Maybe. Maybe not. The guards could literally stumble on them. In any event, I find it hard to believe a 15th-level party didn't have someone with decent Listen and Spot. Mind you, the party could see the guards coming, but don't realize the guards are a problem until the guards are right in their faces, asking for their surrender. (Hmmmm... range on Sense Motive?)

For example, my players, even though they know combat tactics, rarely break from the MO of a lower level group. They rarely use divinations with buff + teleport tactics.

Some DMs hate it when players use those tactics. As a player, including of high level wizards, I never take spells like Scrying or Teleport (although I take Dimension Door) ... I just think scry/buff/port is cheesy and doesn't make for a fun combat. But that's just me. There are lots of high level tactics they could use and not just this one (whether they use those tactics or not, you could tell me, not the other way around). Most divinations wouldn't protect them from the guards, I think. (Maybe Moment of Prescience, which protects from one attack that wouldn't have hit anyway, and now you've just wasted an 8th-level spell.) The spells that see the future have their own problems, too. Are you expecting them to use Clairvoyance around the corner and go "gasp, ordinary city guards! Run or buff!"? Even if they did that, how many spells do they have to devote to that kind of scouting per day?

Perhaps you could explain how the high level PCs should have avoided this situation. Short of noticing guards staring at them from 60 feet away, I'm not seeing it. (I know how I would react to it, but avoid it?)

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I disagree. Because every city guard is a level 1 warrior (as in every edition's DMG), humanity has a great need for exceptional heroes!

I missed "every city guard is a level 1 warrior" in any edition of the DMG, especially those editions where there was no such thing as the warrior class.

 

[Numion]

Perhaps you could explain how the high level PCs should have avoided this situation. Short of noticing guards staring at them from 60 feet away, I'm not seeing it. (I know how I would react to it, but avoid it?)

I don't think they should've avoided it. If my character was in that situation I'd probably use it to flaunt my powers, like "Drop my weapons? Make me." I don't back away from confrontations.

 

[VirgilCaine]

Players don't always use their characters to their fullest effectiveness. Playing a 1st level character effectively is different from playing a 15th level character effectively. If the advancement in levels is fast the player might make more 'mistakes', because he's not used to the new abilities.

Thus, a 15th level group can be sometimes ambushed by lowly guards. 15th level group sure has ways to avoid the guards - but sometimes precautions are forgotten.

For example, my players, even though they know combat tactics, rarely break from the MO of a lower level group. They rarely use divinations with buff + teleport tactics.

I see what you mean. And not all adventurers are treated to the experience of being scry-buff-ported themselves. And not everyone has Russell Orr as a player.

 

[Remathilis]

One of the twelve watchmen is a level 5 Rogue\level 1 Assassin in disguise. He looks just like the other watchmen. But his crossbow bolt comes with +4d6 of sneak attack damage, a DC 13 Death attack, and at least a +4 to hit above the usual guardsman.

Nice idea, but 4d6 SA isn't much (max on a crit 20+30)=50, enough for MDT, but thats on a VERY lucky roll. And Death attack is Melee Only. (and 13 is easy to make).

 

[Delta]

I missed "every city guard is a level 1 warrior" in any edition of the DMG, especially those editions where there was no such thing as the warrior class.

(sigh) Okay, "first level or less", then. Here are quotes:
- 1E DMG p. 191: "City guard:... 2-16 mercenary soldiers... 1 higher level leader... in addition to the 0 level guardsmen."
- 3E DMG p. 150: "In a community... 1st-level individuals... 5% are warriors.... like this... One 3rd-level warrior (constable), Nine 1st level warriors (two guards and seven militia members)."
Etc.

Provide quotes if you're finding something different.