A Flaw with saving throws or is there

[Vrecknidj]

Give characters this option. If they roll a "1" and would have hit or saved but for the "1 always misses rule" give them the option of hitting (but with minimum damage) or saving, but require that they permanently lose 1hp per their current character level.

If you really, really, really have to hit or save, it might be worth it. Otherwise, a 1 is a miss, get over it.

Dave

 

[RigaMortus]

Off topic a bit, but...

Also on the being able to hit an AC of 55 with a natural 20. How many DMs do you know that would give you a creature that makes you have to roll a 20 to hit. If there is one out there remind me never to be a player in there campaign.

My DM throws encounters like this at us quite frequently. It just adds to the realism in the game world. At any time we can encounter the strongest hero in the world, or the weakest monsters. Conversely, we can encounter the most powerful villain, or the wimpiest adventurer.

If a DM constantly throws encounters at you where you are obviously going to win... where is the challenge in that? where is the danger? where is the fun? I'd rather not play with that kind of DM...

Note: Just because we may "encounter" an EVIL AC 55 Necromancer, doesn't mean we are ever forced to fight them. But those types of encounters are always there...

 

[Ruvion]

Now I want to make this comment:

In the first round of combat, a colossal red wyrm is hit with a poisononed dagger wielded by a halfling with...mmmm...let's say Fort DC 13 saving throw...then the DM rolls a "1".

Well...Dang.

How do you suppose that minuscule portion of poison manage to spread through the gigantic body of the wyrm and knocked him/her unconscious or even worse cause paralysis?

Like I said...dang.

 

[Creamsteak]

The poison went straight to the Dragon's heart. But poison just causes ability score damage, and I don't think I've ever seen a DC 13 poison that does 10 points of dex damage, so although it might suddenly slow the Dragon, it's not about to kill it. Worst case scenerio would be if they used a sleep poison that works on Dragons at that DC.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Now I want to make this comment:

In the first round of combat, a colossal red wyrm is hit with a poisononed dagger wielded by a halfling with...mmmm...let's say Fort DC 13 saving throw...then the DM rolls a "1".

Well...Dang.

How do you suppose that minuscule portion of poison manage to spread through the gigantic body of the wyrm and knocked him/her unconscious or even worse cause paralysis?

Like I said...dang.

Show me one single example from any of the core books where this is possible.

The typical weak DC 13 poison would do something like d4 Str damage. So maybe the poison numbs a rotator cuff muscle and forces the dragon to favor that limb, reducing its overall fighting prowess a little. Big whoopee.

 

[dcollins]

In my 3.0 DMG, there is "carrion crawler brain juice", price 200 gp, Contact DC 13, initial damage: paralysis. But of course dragons are immune to paralysis effects.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Show me one single example from any of the core books where this is possible.

You mean like:

Drow poison; Injury DC 13; Unconsciousness; Unconsciousness for 2d4 hours; 75gp...?

It's not a sleep or paralysis effect, so dragons aren't immune...

-Hyp.

 

[Asmo]

This is why our group don´t use the fail on a 1 on saves.
It doesn´t feel right.

Asmo

 

[UltimaGabe]

That halfling got really, really, REALLY lucky.

In that same case, that Halfling, upon reaching 20th level of the Figher class, could be laying down to sleep one night after a big adventure and be ambused by a 1st-level commoner wielding the same type of dagger with the same type of poison on it. That 20th-level Fighter would have the exact same chance of being killed as that Dragon. What's your point?

It goes both ways, my friend.

 

[Ruvion]

That halfling got really, really, REALLY lucky.

In that same case, that Halfling, upon reaching 20th level of the Figher class, could be laying down to sleep one night after a big adventure and be ambused by a 1st-level commoner wielding the same type of dagger with the same type of poison on it. That 20th-level Fighter would have the exact same chance of being killed as that Dragon. What's your point?

It goes both ways, my friend.

That is precisely my point...whether it goes both ways or not, sometimes having an auto-fail at "1" (or auto-success at "20) just might be too weird or unsettling.

Oops my bad about carrion crawler brain juice...but yea the drow poison works.