A gelatinous Cube and a 10-feet corridor ...

Nickolaidas

Explorer
So, I'm DMing a custom adventure I made and there's this situation in a dungeon ...

a 10-feet wide and say, 50 feet long corridor has a gelatinous cube in the middle. Like this:

XX
XX
XX
XX
GG
GG
XX
XX
XX
XX

X=empty corridor square
G=Gelatinous Cube

The PCs are walking down the corridor and they fail their Perception Checks to notice the Cube. Or - you know what? They spot it. They're aware, and not surprised. A Fighter, a Cleric, a Wizard, and a Rogue. So the 'map' is now like this:

WR
FC
XX
XX
GG
GG
XX
XX
XX

W=Wizard, R=Rogue, F=Fighter, and C=Cleric.

Now, let's assume that for the next couple of rounds, the party peppers the Cube with arrows and do some damage, but the cube walks up to them.

WR
FC
GG
GG
XX
XX
XX
XX
XX

Now, in the next round, the cube walks to the space of the Fighter and the Cleric and automatically uses its Engulf Ability on both of them at the same time (or can it only use on one of them - it's a 10x10ft Cube and by walking 5 ft forward walks inside both characters' area … am I wrong in this?). But the first character - the Fighter - saves successfully. However, the Monster Manual reads (in the Engulf Ability of the Gelatinous Cube):
"On a successful save, the creature can choose to be pushed 5 feet back, or to the side of the cube. A creature that chooses not to be pushed suffers the consequences of a failed saving throw".

However, in the above case, the fighter hasn't got anywhere to go - behind him is the wizard, and if I recall correctly, a creature cannot end its turn on another creature's space. The fighter also cannot go to the side because to the left is a wall, and to the right is the Cleric.

So does that mean that the Fighter automatically fails the save and is pulled inside the Cube? As well as the Cleric?

Or are both the Wizard and the Rogue 'automatically' moved 5 ft backwards (as long as there's room in the corridor) in order for the Figther and the Cleric to go to the 5ft space the Wizard and Rogue were just standing once they succeed in their saves?

Please, enlighten me folks!
 

practicalm

Explorer
I would rule that there is no problem for the wizard and fighter to share the space for the time until one of them has a new turn.
They are sharing a space at the end of someone else's turn which is fine.
 

Nickolaidas

Explorer
Player's Handbook - page 191
"Whether a creature is a friend or an enemy, you can't willingly end your move in its space."

Doesn't the fighter moving 5 ft backwards to escape the cube counts as 'willingly ending one's move in its space'?
 

Lidgar

Adventurer
Obviously the fighter pushes the Wizard into the cube, taking his/her space. Isn't that what wizards are for?

PS - And why did someone allow the thief to skulk in the back? The cleric should know better.
 

ad_hoc

Hero
Give the Wizard the opportunity to use their reaction to step back to allow the Fighter room.

That's what reactions are for.
 
Player's Handbook - page 191
"Whether a creature is a friend or an enemy, you can't willingly end your move in its space."

Doesn't the fighter moving 5 ft backwards to escape the cube counts as 'willingly ending one's move in its space'?
It's not his turn when the cube tries to engulf him.

On his turn he will have to end it somewhere else.
 
So, I'm DMing a custom adventure I made and there's this situation in a dungeon ...

a 10-feet wide and say, 50 feet long corridor has a gelatinous cube in the middle. Like this:

XX
XX
XX
XX
GG
GG
XX
XX
XX
XX

X=empty corridor square
G=Gelatinous Cube

The PCs are walking down the corridor and they fail their Perception Checks to notice the Cube. Or - you know what? They spot it. They're aware, and not surprised. A Fighter, a Cleric, a Wizard, and a Rogue. So the 'map' is now like this:

WR
FC
XX
XX
GG
GG
XX
XX
XX

W=Wizard, R=Rogue, F=Fighter, and C=Cleric.

Now, let's assume that for the next couple of rounds, the party peppers the Cube with arrows and do some damage, but the cube walks up to them.

WR
FC
GG
GG
XX
XX
XX
XX
XX

Now, in the next round, the cube walks to the space of the Fighter and the Cleric and automatically uses its Engulf Ability on both of them at the same time (or can it only use on one of them - it's a 10x10ft Cube and by walking 5 ft forward walks inside both characters' area … am I wrong in this?). But the first character - the Fighter - saves successfully. However, the Monster Manual reads (in the Engulf Ability of the Gelatinous Cube):
"On a successful save, the creature can choose to be pushed 5 feet back, or to the side of the cube. A creature that chooses not to be pushed suffers the consequences of a failed saving throw".

However, in the above case, the fighter hasn't got anywhere to go - behind him is the wizard, and if I recall correctly, a creature cannot end its turn on another creature's space. The fighter also cannot go to the side because to the left is a wall, and to the right is the Cleric.

So does that mean that the Fighter automatically fails the save and is pulled inside the Cube? As well as the Cleric?

Or are both the Wizard and the Rogue 'automatically' moved 5 ft backwards (as long as there's room in the corridor) in order for the Figther and the Cleric to go to the 5ft space the Wizard and Rogue were just standing once they succeed in their saves?

Please, enlighten me folks!
The map is not the terrain. You might rule:

  • The fighter shares the wizard's space – adapting the rules for squeezing.
  • This particular dungeon has intermittent alcoves, and the fighter is pushed into one of those as he sees the Gelatinous Cube move just six inches away from his face so that he can smell the acrid scent of its transparent "skin."
  • There happens to be a jammed pit trap which the fighter realizes and activates, clinging to the edge with one hand as the Gelatinous Cube passes above.
  • The hallways in this dungeon are barrel vaulted, and the mostly square Gelatinous Cube does not occupy that arched few feet above, so the fighter might pull a spy/thief move, arms and legs pressed against the stone watching the cube slither below. Or perhaps there is a shaft in the ceiling for sunlight/airflow the fighter can leap up and grab?
 

Eltab

Adventurer
Doesn't the fighter moving 5 ft backwards to escape the cube counts as 'willingly ending one's move in its space'?
It does sound like it when using common sense, but we have rules to adjudicate strange stuff that happens. (Or cause strange stuff to happen, sometimes. :confused: )

The Cube is pushing the Fighter, he is not moving under his own power. So the two characters can share a space until one of their turns comes up. At the end of that character's turn, that character has to be somewhere else.

(If the Wizard goes first, this is what Expeditious Retreat is for. If it's the Fighter, Shovel a piece out of the Cube and step back three squares.)
 
I'd just house rule on the fly. I'd let him move 5 feet into an occupied square to avoid being engulfed but he'd fall prone.

Although, being automatically engulfed sounds fun. There's a reason the gelatinous likes hunting in this hallway...
 

aco175

Adventurer
I would likely rule that the cube cannot move further since it cannot enter the fighter's square because the fighter cannot end in the mages square. I would say that the cleric was engulfed and the cube lurched back.
 

77IM

Explorer!!!
I'd let the fighter move back 10 feet -- first he moves back 5 feet, but that square is occupied by the wizard, so the fighter gets shunted to the nearest unoccupied space. The nearest unoccupied space is right behind the wizard, so now the fighter is 10 feet from the cube. And shielded by the wizard, who is probably whining about it, that wimp.
 

Demetrios1453

Adventurer
What happens if the group in question is in a dead-end corridor - that there's actually a wall behind the wizard and rogue? (Presumably the gelatinous cube snuck up behind them as they went down the corridor.) If the fighter gets shunted to the nearest unoccupied space - well, that's on the other side of the cube!
 
The fighter shares the wizard's space – adapting the rules for squeezing.
This is how I've ruled similar things.

I find the "can't willingly end your move" to be somewhat problematic. By RAW, you can't stand on top of a fallen ally or enemy, because you would be ending your turn in their space. Arguably you could once they fail all the death saves, since they're no longer creatures, but it shows how strict adherence to wording can quickly become silly.
 

77IM

Explorer!!!
What happens if the group in question is in a dead-end corridor - that there's actually a wall behind the wizard and rogue? (Presumably the gelatinous cube snuck up behind them as they went down the corridor.) If the fighter gets shunted to the nearest unoccupied space - well, that's on the other side of the cube!
Well, that would still be 10 feet of movement, and it's somewhat analogous to stepping to the side. Plus, then he's cut off from his soon-to-be-cube-food party, which I think is awesome!

Actually, in order to reach that space he would need to move through another 5 feet of cube, so I'd probably have him make the save again to see if he can dodge that 5-foot section also. (This effectively gives him disadvantage on the save, which seems fair under the circumstances.)
 
I would rule that there is no problem for the wizard and fighter to share the space for the time until one of them has a new turn.
They are sharing a space at the end of someone else's turn which is fine.
Give the Wizard the opportunity to use their reaction to step back to allow the Fighter room.

That's what reactions are for.
Honestly, either one of these would be the direction I went. If you want a penalty for being in the same space, disadvantage on attacks until one of the two moves, and whichever one of them goes first must move or otherwise be out of that space by the end of their turn.
 

Ganymede81

Visitor
I'd let the fighter share the same square as the wizard, but also be prone. If he wants to stand up, he has to crawl to a free square first.
 

ccs

40th lv DM
Rules aside: Remember, you're arguing about occupying a 5ft cube of space. people, even with gear, don't take up that much space (generally anyways). You might not be able to fight effectively within that shred space, but you can fit.
what would happen at our table would be that the fighter is pushed into the wizards square & both make a dex save or end up prone.
the next to act would then have to move to an unoccupied space or neither could attack/cast spells etc. or if they could it'd be at disadvantage & only on of them could act.

And if anyone INSISTED on RAW? Then that player would get a lot of crap for being a crappy friend/teammate & not letting the fighter step back.

& no, this would not set any kind of precedent so no one would be running up into an enemies square to hinder attacks.
 
RAW and how I'd rule is that the party is crowding each other's lines of escape, and that since the fighter has no valid 5' move he's engulfed. I'd warn the players that's a risk of packing themselves too tightly before the cube got to them so that they weren't surprised, but part of dealing with the situation is leaving enough room for characters to maneuver so they don't get special chances to escape. I wouldn't be bothered if a DM houseruled it so that the fighter can stand in someone else's space.

(If the Wizard goes first, this is what Expeditious Retreat is for. If it's the Fighter, Shovel a piece out of the Cube and step back three squares.)
What good does Expeditious Retreat do the Wizard here? Without it, the Wizard can either use disengage to avoid an AOO, then move or move risking an AOO, then do a regular action. Expeditious retreat lets him burn his bonus action to get extra movement, but that doesn't help with anything in the example. Unless you mean the wizard is just bugging out and abandoning the rest of the party, of course.
 

S'mon

Legend
As others have said, the rule is you can't end YOUR turn in another's space. This seems to be a legacy of 3e/4e square-centric combat.

I'd rule it (in fact I did rule it recently) that all the PCs who get pushed back get pushed back together in a jumbled heap. If there is no way back because of eg dead end corridor then I would make the engulf automatic.
 

S'mon

Legend
This is how I've ruled similar things.

I find the "can't willingly end your move" to be somewhat problematic. By RAW, you can't stand on top of a fallen ally or enemy, because you would be ending your turn in their space. Arguably you could once they fail all the death saves, since they're no longer creatures, but it shows how strict adherence to wording can quickly become silly.
Yeah, I don't apply the rule to prone, unconscious creatures. You are free to stand on top of them. :)
 

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