D&D General A glimpse at WoTC's current view of Rule 0

[Belen]

My favorite excuse though is 'I'm doing this specific Earth-based setting that is absolutely not in Ireland, but somehow I'm not banning the daoine sidhe we call elves.'

Here is my latest campaign treatise that I gave players before the start of the game.

Personally, I think it gives plenty of room for most folks to find something to play.

Ashkelaan Highlands
The Ashkelaan Highlands rest at the feet of the Ashkel Mountains. It has long been seen as a remote, barbaric wilderness by the southern civilizations although ancient ruins have been found all over the northern lands.
The Highlands are home to a hardy, yet sparse population of isolated villages. The largest concentrations of people are found in the remote Ten Towns (Bailes), the dwarven settlement of Dun Carraig, or the wood elves of the elder wood forest of Eryn Na’Vrae, also known as the Old Wood or the Forest of Spirits.
The Ten Towns are connected by an old road network with a massive inn at the center called the Crossroads Inn. Each Town is roughly a day’s ride from the Inn and serves as a central meeting point for the Town leaders as well as a trading post for the annual southern caravan. A massive road runs from the northwest into an abandoned pass of the Ashkel Mountains to the southeastern port village of Phresia on the Ezmer Sea.
It has been a hazardous year for the Highlanders. A tremor shook the Highlands and then the sky darkened 18 months ago. The previous summer never arrived, and it is only now beginning to thaw into a chill spring. Starvation stalked the towns and only the timely aid of the dwarves staved off tragedy…

Ability Score Generation
Custom Array (17, 15, 14, 13, 11, 9) or 4d6 (drop the lowest)

Hit Points
Max (first level) followed by Half plus one (Example: A wizard divides a d6 by 2 and adds one, thus gaining 4 hit points plus constitution bonus per level.)

Alignment
Good or Neutral

Races, Classes, & Archetypes
Classes: (PHB); Species: PHB, PHB-variant (Dragonborn-(Ahniss variant)), Aasimar, Ahniss (Lizardfolk), Changeling, Eladrin (Summer or Winter), Fairy, Leonin , Satyr, Minotaur, Moon Elf (High Elf variant), Wood Elf

Bonus Profession & Feat
Select bonus toolset at first level, such as blacksmith tools. Select a feat at first level (must meet all requirements).

Character Background or History
Please provide a brief background for your character. It should be between one paragraph and one page. Your character should have goals and desires. Please make sure to provide character hooks as part of the story. (Note: The game should be fun for everyone at the table. Characters that thieve from the party, loners, etc. have been known to make the game less enjoyable for others, including the DM.)

Campaign Expectations
The campaign should be organic, and players should feel free to pursue their own goals and agendas. Recruit followers or build strongholds, pursue love or vengeance. The game is meant to be collaborative. You should not expect to purchase magic items although you are encouraged to quest for them such as searching for places of power, exploring old ruins, or dealing with ancient beings.

 

[Vaalingrade]

What does that mean? Are you advocating for more player control than making decisions for their PCs? That's all I want on the player side for a D&D-style game.

Yes. I'm advocating for everyone participating in the game having a say in the rules they are playing by.

And also, actually allowing players to make decisions for their PCs instead of being forced to comply to one player's aesthetics.

 

[FrozenNorth]

I guess you never experienced the epic 3.5 rules battles between members of your group that were arguing over interpretation of the rule or square placement.

I skipped both 3e and 3.5e for several reasons, including the reification of RAW.

System matters. I believe that 5e has fewer of those epic rules battles, and it definitely isn’t because 5e has shifted more power to DMs.

 

[Oofta]

That’s just wrong. DMing is a skill like any other. We were all bad DMs when we started, just like I was a terrible tennis player when I started. The vast majority of DMs get better.

Bad advice to DMs makes it less likely that they will improve. Good advice makes it more likely they will improve.

The new rule 0 formulation is good advice, and you don’t have to be a bad DM to benefit from it.

What does that have to do with what I've been saying? I agree, we used to have bad DMing advice. I don't see anything like that in the current version of the rules.

What specific rules in the current version of the game leads to bad DMing?

 

[Vaalingrade]

Here is my latest campaign treatise that I gave players before the start of the game.

Personally, I think it gives plenty of room for most folks to find something to play.

I think we may be misunderstanding each others. I'm not saying you specifically are a problem. I'm saying I've seen people who are and who are very proudly.

 

[dave2008]

I think it can be broken down starkly.

You have a rules question come up in a group consisting of five players and a GM. The GM thinks it should be done one way; four of the five players think it should be done a different way.

Which way is the group expected to go with? I see no general reason in that situation it should be the GM (I'm not even sure it should if two of them have a different one, if none of the other three have an opinion one way or another). Yes, there can be social complications that apply, but that doesn't change the basic principal.

I am really not sure what you are suggesting. A split in agreement is not what I am talking about really. I think that is easy, but it should be discussed at session 0 how each group wants to handle such disagreements.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Yes. I'm advocating for everyone participating in the game having a say in the rules they are playing by.

And also, actually allowing players to make decisions for their PCs instead of being forced to comply to one player's aesthetics.

Obviously the players and GM have to decide what game they're playing. I don't think anyone's arguing against that.

As to your second point, can you provide an example of the kind of player freedom you want and that you think is curtailed by any amount of GM authority? Is this a character creation thing? Like getting to play a dragonborn when the GM says they aren't in the setting? Is it broader than that?

 

[Belen]

I skipped both 3e and 3.5e for several reasons, including the reification of RAW.

System matters. I believe that 5e has fewer of those epic rules battles, and it definitely isn’t because 5e has shifted more power to DMs.

I agree. This is one reason I dislike the move to more grid and crunch with 5.5. I rarely have rules debates in 5e versus older systems unless it is the one player in my group that loves to cheese the rules although you know what is coming when he starts grinning and laughing.

 

[FrozenNorth]

I'm failing to see the relevance here. Some people shouldn't be DMs. Heck, some people shouldn't play D&D. But I fail to see how rule 0 or the DM being referee, keeping in mind all the rest of the guidance, has significant impact on being a bad DM.

That assumes only a bad DM can benefit from the advice. Everyone benefits from the reminder that you aren’t DMing in a vaccuum, and that your players aren’t evil trolls trying to screw up your game.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Obviously the players and GM have to decide what game they're playing. I don't think anyone's arguing against that.

Plenty of people are directly arguing against the 'and' part in favor of just the DM getting to decide period and the only recourse for players being not to play with the DM.

As to your second point, can you provide an example if the kind of player freedom you want and that you think is curtailed by any amount if GM authority? Is this a character creation thing? Like getting to play a dragonborn when the GM says they aren't in the setting? Is it broader than that?

It's broader, but banning PH species is red flag 0. One guy who is by definition as a PC is a super special weirdo, in a world of mad wizards and portals, will apparently destroy all of a setting's integrity somehow.

But I've seen things like vetoing player actions because 'your character won't do that', and of course the classic uneven on the fly rulings just to get an outcome they want. All of which should be a table choice, not one guy.