A GOOD cleric for Keep on the shadowfell

phil500

First Post
Hey, I noticed the keep cleric sucked. Here is one which, no exaggeration, might have prevented some of the infamous wipes. he has 1 additional encounter heal (ravens blessing) and hits harder and more often than the keep cleric.

Feel free to suggest/discuss modifications.

Level 1 cleric- dwarf.
16 str
18 wis (16+2)
14 con (12+2)
12 cha
10 dex
8 int.

greataxe basic attack: +5 vs. AC, 1d12+5 damage (3 from str, +2 from dwarven weapon training)

Feats (level 1)
Dwarven weapon training- proficiency with axes and hammers, +2 damage with them.

(level 2)
Channel Divinity: raven queens blessing. triggers when you kill something, lets you or ally spend a surge.


At will:
Righteous Brand : str vs. ac, 1[w]+str mod damage and an ally gains your str mod as a power bonus to attack vs. enemy.

Sacred flame : wis vs. reflex, 1d6+wis, ally gains 1 temp hp (2 at level 2) or makes a save.

Encounter
Healing strike- 2[w]+ str mod damage and target is marked until next turn. you or ally can spend a healing surge.

Healing word- 2x per encounter. minor, target can spend a surge and gain additional 1d6 hp. also +4 hp from healers lore

Daily
Beacon of hope- close burst 3, wis vs. will. enemies in AoE are weakened if hit. you and allies in aoe regain 5 (+4 from lore) HP. also-for rest of encounter your heals hit for +5 hp more.

Utility (level 2)
Cure light wounds- target gains HP as if it had spent a surge, +4.

Encounter (level 3)
Command- target is dazed until end of your next turn, can slide them 3+cha mod squares or make them prone.


Discussion-
I am fairly happy with the 16,16,12,12,10,8 point buy for this build. the only thing i wish is that cha could be a bit higher since sacred flame is such a nice staple.

I dont advise building with either a 20 str or wis and dumping the other. the fact that you get to raise 2 stats and that the clerics powers are split rather evenly between str and wis means a balanced cleric will hit more often.

Why? the balanced build will have -1 on one stat, -2 on another compared to 2 different, one-stat maxing builds. These minuses are overcome by the fact that you can match your attack to the enemies weakest defense. look at the level 3 encounter powers: there are 4, and each attack a different defense. Sure, maxing wis gives you 3 to choose from, but really limits multiclassing later on.

This guy is focused on really dishing out the healing. if you want, you can swap dwarven weapon training for the warlord multi to squeeze out 1 more daily inspiring word, but at that point i think you are going too far at the expense of kicking ass.

Beacon of hope is hands down the best daily. if it hits 4 characters, thats 36 points of healing between them. along with the damage prevented by the weakened effect, this is the type of spell that really turns the tide of an encounter. the other dailys do something like 2 or 3 times the damage you can do with your basic melle- nice but not exactly tide turning. it also makes your heals nuclear afterwards, since i think the +5 stacks with +4 from healers lore (am i right?)

Raven queens blessing, Healing strike and CLW are also chosen to maximize the amount of healing effects you can dish out. again, these powers could be replaced by things such as bless or other, damaging effects. But when you go into a really tough encounter, you the cleric you want on your side is the one who will keep everyone alive and swinging, not the one who will be a second rate striker.

this guy is fairly fragile, with a very low reflex save. play him like a striker rather than defender. one thing that can keep him out of trouble is swapping the greataxe for a halberd. Does reach help keep you out of trouble? not sure.
 
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Your cleric looks very nice. Only two quibbles.

1. The KotS pregens were made with an array that would not have permitted the ability score allocation that you used. The array was 16/14/13/12/11/10.

2. Beacon of Hope is awesome, but it gets its best use when the entire party is damaged. This makes it a little harder to use than Cascade of Light. When Beacon of Hope is used in its optimum situation, its amazing, but that optimum situation isn't always around. I think its a fair trade.
 

Cadfan said:
2. Beacon of Hope is awesome, but it gets its best use when the entire party is damaged. This makes it a little harder to use than Cascade of Light. When Beacon of Hope is used in its optimum situation, its amazing, but that optimum situation isn't always around. I think its a fair trade.

Ah i didnt know the kots guys were on that array.

Beacon does 3d8+wis mod damage, which is around 18 on average. for the vulnerability 5 to figure, they have to fail a save and you have to hit them next turn. a rough average would be 21 on a hit. a swing of the greataxe does 11 damage on average. that doesnt seem like it could really turn things around.

beacon is still better even if only 3 people get the full 9 points, and even if you dont use healing powers after it. in many situations, healing 27 points is far better than doing 21. in the ones where it isnt, you have other options, i mean, basic attack+action point+basic attack is as good as that daily.
 


I don't get the problem, though. I played the Keep cleric, and I did fine. Not only did I keep our Fighter and Paladin up with Sacred Flame, I saved the whole group's ass, twice, with Beacon of Hope and some liberal use of the Healing Words. Not to mention that my Armor of Bahamut prevented three crits over the course of the game.

Your cleric looks pretty good, and everything... I guess I just don't get why you think the pregen isn't, is all.
 

DogBackward said:
I don't get the problem, though. I played the Keep cleric, and I did fine. Not only did I keep our Fighter and Paladin up with Sacred Flame, I saved the whole group's ass, twice, with Beacon of Hope and some liberal use of the Healing Words. Not to mention that my Armor of Bahamut prevented three crits over the course of the game.

Your cleric looks pretty good, and everything... I guess I just don't get why you think the pregen isn't, is all.
The pregen Cleric is bad IMHO.

Low Wisdom (16 vs. 18) means he misses with a his two at-wills more than he should. It also means his Healing Word is slightly less effective than it should be.

Low Strength means he has only Wisdom at-wills instead of one of each -- and it means he sucks in melee.

Finally, he's actually wrong: the writers forgot to include the Half-Elf bonus encounter power.

Cheers, -- N
 


Nifft said:
The pregen Cleric is bad IMHO. ... Low Wisdom (16 vs. 18) means he misses with a his two at-wills more than he should. It also means his Healing Word is slightly less effective than it should be.

I agree that the pregen is not as well thought out as it should've been. The powers selected (including the suggested half elf dilettante power) don't seem to mesh with the scores as well as they should.

But, that said, I don't think it's fair to call a 16 Wis "low." You're losing one point off of things. Sure, "to hit" bumps are rare, but there's no reason a character taking two sixteens in appropriate stats can't be as effective one with an 18 in one of them. They just have to be built well to take full advantage of those scores (unlike the cleric). Specifically, a lot of powers get damage bumps from more than one score, so, like the weapons trade off, you can trade to hit probability for more damage. A valid choice, IMHO.
 

DogBackward said:
. Not only did I keep our Fighter and Paladin up with Sacred Flame, I saved the whole group's ass, twice, with Beacon of Hope.

yeah the one regret i have about this build is the low cha. sacred flame is nice.

I have 2 questions
1) if someone is at -5, does sacred flame get them to 1?
2) does 1[w] include the +2 damage from the dwarven training feat?

As for this guy- i thought more and realized halberd is the way to go. you can stay just out of reach of a guy who the ftr is tanking, hitting him with righteous brand. im not sure which is better, but +3 to attack is pretty good compared to +3 temp hp. think of it as "preventive medicine"

tell me some details about the beacon please.
 

I have to say, (and this is going to make me sound old) but I don't understand the modern idea that anything less than an 18 in your class' prime stat is "weak". There was a time when having an 18 at all was just plain munchy.

The game seems designed around the idea that you will have an 18, so it looks like a vicious cycle that's here to stay.

Fitz
 

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